Russian Navy Ships

[Delta Force]

So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

[KWorld]

They look perfectly fine to me, classic predreadnought battleships.  It's really the Lord Nelsons, Dantons, and the Satsumas, with their 10-12 gun heavy secondary battery that are semi-dreadnoughts.

[Tanthalas]

I see absolutly no problem with the 8" secondary main ship for 1895 (im doing much the same thing after all), I might question the 10" guns for the period however.  Post startup I however would see no problem with it, especialy since OTL the british went to 9.2" in around 1902. 

However you may want to play around with belt heights just a bit as you have almost 2' of unarmored freeboard (course they are tumblehome hulls which presents all its own known problems)

So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

[Delta Force]

I see absolutly no problem with the 8" secondary main ship for 1895 (im doing much the same thing after all), I might question the 10" guns for the period however.  Post startup I however would see no problem with it, especialy since OTL the british went to 9.2" in around 1902. 

However you may want to play around with belt heights just a bit as you have almost 2' of unarmored freeboard (course they are tumblehome hulls which presents all its own known problems)

So what do you think of these two ships? Are they too close to being semi-dreadnoughts?

It's only a waterline area belt, typical of most battleships of the era.

[Delta Force]

A Russian version of the Connecticut class battleship. I imagine if drawn it would be quite the unusual looking warship.

Tumblehome BB2v2, Russia Battleship laid down 1899

Displacement:
   12,570 t light; 13,193 t standard; 14,580 t normal; 15,689 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (392.00 ft / 384.00 ft) x 74.00 ft (Bulges 80.00 ft) x (26.25 / 28.06 ft)
   (119.48 m / 117.04 m) x 22.56 m (Bulges 24.38 m)  x (8.00 / 8.55 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 35.0 cal guns - 749.99lbs / 340.19kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1899 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1899 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1899 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1899 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 9,160 lbs / 4,155 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   134.00 ft / 40.84 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   4th:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   5th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 13,660 ihp / 10,190 Kw = 17.68 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,496 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   663 - 862

Cost:
   £1.421 million / $5.684 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,599 tons, 11.0 %
      - Guns: 1,599 tons, 11.0 %
   Armour: 4,899 tons, 33.6 %
      - Belts: 2,688 tons, 18.4 %
      - Armament: 1,155 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 799 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Towers: 257 tons, 1.8 %
   Machinery: 2,168 tons, 14.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,893 tons, 26.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,010 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15,864 lbs / 7,196 Kg = 18.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 14.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.49

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.633 / 0.637
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,426 Square feet or 1,991 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 149 lbs/sq ft or 729 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 2.64
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 16.17 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor.

Raised secondary mount is similar to stacked mount on the Kearsarge/Connecticut class battleships.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[Delta Force]

Tumblehome 2nd Class BB1v2, Russia Battleship laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,320 t standard; 7,860 t normal; 8,292 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (300.00 ft / 292.00 ft) x 72.00 ft (Bulges 78.00 ft) x (20.00 / 20.98 ft)
   (91.44 m / 89.00 m) x 21.95 m (Bulges 23.77 m)  x (6.10 / 6.39 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   102.00 ft / 31.09 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   190.00 ft / 57.91 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,800 ihp / 4,327 Kw = 15.17 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 973 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   416 - 542

Cost:
   £0.619 million / $2.475 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 599 tons, 7.6 %
      - Guns: 599 tons, 7.6 %
   Armour: 3,320 tons, 42.2 %
      - Belts: 2,128 tons, 27.1 %
      - Armament: 446 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 576 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 170 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 983 tons, 12.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,088 tons, 26.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 860 tons, 10.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,139 lbs / 5,506 Kg = 24.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 2.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 69 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.35

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.604 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.74 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.09 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,433 Square feet or 1,434 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 570 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 13.86 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 5.77 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[Delta Force]

Tumblehome AC1v2, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895b

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,057 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 10,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,120 lbs / 962 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   140.00 ft / 42.67 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   300.00 ft / 91.44 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 105 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,660 ihp / 10,937 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.782 million / $3.129 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 448 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 448 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 2,263 tons, 24.6 %
      - Belts: 1,544 tons, 16.8 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,485 tons, 27.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,496 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,598 lbs / 3,900 Kg = 33.6 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,607 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 101 lbs/sq ft or 492 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equalvalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equalvalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[snip]

Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

Might want to fix that

[Delta Force]

Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

Might want to fix that

It was about 3 inches too short due to editing. Fixed now.

Tumblehome AC1v3, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1895

Displacement:
   7,700 t light; 8,057 t standard; 9,196 t normal; 10,107 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (448.00 ft / 440.00 ft) x 52.00 ft (Bulges 58.00 ft) x (24.00 / 26.04 ft)
   (136.55 m / 134.11 m) x 15.85 m (Bulges 17.68 m)  x (7.32 / 7.94 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 45.0 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1895 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,120 lbs / 962 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   138.00 ft / 42.06 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   3.00" / 76 mm   302.00 ft / 92.05 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   3.00" / 76 mm      6.00" / 152 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.00" / 203 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 14,660 ihp / 10,937 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,050 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   469 - 610

Cost:
   £0.782 million / $3.129 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 448 tons, 4.9 %
      - Guns: 448 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 2,271 tons, 24.7 %
      - Belts: 1,552 tons, 16.9 %
      - Armament: 276 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 291 tons, 3.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 151 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,485 tons, 27.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,488 tons, 27.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,495 tons, 16.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,573 lbs / 3,889 Kg = 33.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 3.2 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.72

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.526 / 0.532
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.59 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.98 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,607 Square feet or 1,450 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 100 lbs/sq ft or 491 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 6.93 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 3.46 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[Delta Force]

I'm interested in comments on this design, it is intended to be an early version of the type of hybrid armored cruisers/battlecruisers Russia built in the 1900s. In other words it is better armed and armored than an armored cruiser but not as well armed and armored as a battleship.

Tumblehome AC2, Russia Armored Cruiser laid down 1897

Displacement:
   9,600 t light; 10,043 t standard; 11,286 t normal; 12,281 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (458.00 ft / 450.00 ft) x 54.00 ft (Bulges 60.00 ft) x (24.00 / 25.94 ft)
   (139.60 m / 137.16 m) x 16.46 m (Bulges 18.29 m)  x (7.32 / 7.91 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 45.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1897 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 180 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1897 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 360 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1897 Model
     8 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3,120 lbs / 1,415 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   154.00 ft / 46.94 m   13.86 ft / 4.22 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   296.00 ft / 90.22 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined -30.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.50" / 38 mm
   Forecastle: 1.50" / 38 mm  Quarter deck: 1.50" / 38 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 16,900 ihp / 12,607 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,238 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   546 - 711

Cost:
   £0.981 million / $3.922 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 664 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 664 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 3,262 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 2,093 tons, 18.5 %
      - Armament: 451 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 502 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 217 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 2,771 tons, 24.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,894 tons, 25.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,686 tons, 14.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 10 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     10,637 lbs / 4,825 Kg = 21.3 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.55
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.55

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.610 / 0.614
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.21 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.00 ft / 4.88 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 17,933 Square feet or 1,666 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 530 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

Tumblehome hull.

Belt and end armor belts cover 12 feet vertically. Belt armor is equivalent to 9.24 inches of vertical armor, end armor is equivalent to 4.62 inches of vertical armor.

Miscellaneous weight:
10 tons hull below water is for 6 x 18 inch torpedo tubes (2 fore, 2 aft, 1 each broadside) with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

[Jefgte]

IMO, this is a well balanced cruiser for 1897
Powerfull armament, exellent protection & correct speed.
In a few years, with the technics progress; turbines , Dreadnought types, BCs...

She "ll be a correct 10000t AC with just 4 main guns.

An other choice is to have an AC with 6, 8 or 10 semi heavy guns - 8" for example.
2T2x8" + 6x8" in casemates.
I made that choice for my Marcillia type;1898-7500t-10x194+8x100-21kts

Jef  ;)

[KWorld]

The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

[Delta Force]

The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

[KWorld]

The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

WHat I can find for period Russian 6"/45s says they used 91.2-91-.4 pound shells (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_6-45_m1892.htm).

[Delta Force]

The shells for the 6" guns seem awfully light at only 80 pounds.  Other than that, the only question I'd have is the narrow hull: is a 54' hull going to be wide enough to fit a pair of 10" guns in the late 1890s?

Other than those two questions, though, she seems rather similar to my own USS Georgia design (yours trades some speed for more armor and heavier secondaries), or to the historical USS Tennessee or the Russian Rurik II.

The historic Russian 6 inch guns of this era used 80 pound shells, so I went with that. I'm not so sure about the 10 inch guns being able to fit on a 54 foot hull myself though, and there are not very many ships that mounted the 10 inch as a main armament to use as a pointer.

WHat I can find for period Russian 6"/45s says they used 91.2-91-.4 pound shells (http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_6-45_m1892.htm).

I think I accidentally used the wrong weapon as the baseline. Looks like the shell weights are closer to those for a French 5.5 inch gun. I'll just go ahead and clean up the ships with the 6 inch later on, although it is almost all of my ships at least I do not have that many ship classes.

On another subject, I have a design for the torpedo boat destroyer of the Russian Navy. Being a Mahanian navy they are designed with improved seakeeping and range relative to the small ships of other navies.

TBD1, Russia Torpedo Boat Destroyer laid down 1898

Displacement:
   500 t light; 515 t standard; 595 t normal; 658 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (250.00 ft / 250.00 ft) x 25.00 ft x (8.00 / 8.57 ft)
   (76.20 m / 76.20 m) x 7.62 m  x (2.44 / 2.61 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm 50.0 cal guns - 20.00lbs / 9.07kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 40 lbs / 18 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 9,160 ihp / 6,833 Kw = 26.25 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   59 - 78

Cost:
   £0.069 million / $0.277 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 5 tons, 0.9 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 0.9 %
   Armour: 4 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 358 tons, 60.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 130 tons, 21.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 94 tons, 15.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     123 lbs / 56 Kg = 9.1 x 3.0 " / 76 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.65
   Metacentric height 1.4 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 8.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.06
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.416 / 0.430
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 63 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   30.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.40 ft / 3.17 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 100.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 3,886 Square feet or 361 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 20 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 89 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.45
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 0.50
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Miscellaneous weight:
3 tons on deck is for 2 x 18 inch fore mounted torpedo tubes with 3 x 1,250 pound torpedoes each.

Trial speed: 29 knots