Technology and Research changes

[Tanthalas]

Sure in 1900 the 12/40 is perfectly legal as shown in that table.  Prior to that the 12/35 is the best 12" gun you can have, if you want longer range guns (like I did) you can use the 11/40 (which I did).  Just remember to pay for them if you want the 12/40 available in 1900 (not like we dont all have cash out our ears anyway)  as to everyone using 12/40 on their startup ships, I have corrected every instance of it I have witnessed.

Can L40 12 inch guns be made legal under the rules as shown in that table? Everyone is using the L40s anyways and they do have precedent in this era.

[Delta Force]

Sure in 1900 the 12/40 is perfectly legal as shown in that table.  Prior to that the 12/35 is the best 12" gun you can have, if you want longer range guns (like I did) you can use the 11/40 (which I did).  Just remember to pay for them if you want the 12/40 available in 1900 (not like we dont all have cash out our ears anyway)  as to everyone using 12/40 on their startup ships, I have corrected every instance of it I have witnessed.

I meant legal for 1895. There were plenty of L40 12 inch guns in the 1890s.

[Tanthalas]

and as I pointed out Rules are Rules.  The chart dosn't allow 12/40 untill you have the 1900 gun tech which since there is no research prior to startup we will all have as part of our baseline techs.  As such ships layed down on or after January 1st 1900  will be able to have 12/40 or 11/45 however any startup ship is restricted to 12/35 or 11/40.  I dont necessasarily like it but it is how it is.

Sure in 1900 the 12/40 is perfectly legal as shown in that table.  Prior to that the 12/35 is the best 12" gun you can have, if you want longer range guns (like I did) you can use the 11/40 (which I did).  Just remember to pay for them if you want the 12/40 available in 1900 (not like we dont all have cash out our ears anyway)  as to everyone using 12/40 on their startup ships, I have corrected every instance of it I have witnessed.

I meant legal for 1895. There were plenty of L40 12 inch guns in the 1890s.

[snip]

Please provide links to back up those claims. Most of the 12"/40 guns I have found have a service entry date of post 1900. The gun rules work for the vast majority of historical guns, and the time has long passed for asking for there alteration, even if it was up for discution.

[Nobody]

The rules are designed to give a continues progress over the distinctive steps.

There will always be otl counter examples, e.g. the German 1890 28cm/40 or some Krupp 40cm/35 and 42cm/33 from early 1880s! link Or some very early 6"/50 like these

[Delta Force]

Please provide links to back up those claims. Most of the 12"/40 guns I have found have a service entry date of post 1900. The gun rules work for the vast majority of historical guns, and the time has long passed for asking for there alteration, even if it was up for discution.

France has them in 1895/1898 (not only L40, also L45): http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_12-40_m1893.htm
Russia has them in 1895: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_12-40_m1895.htm

Also when I said "[e]veryone is using the L40s anyways" I meant that in reference to Springsharp simulations, not that all nations had them in the 1890s.

[Tanthalas]

Yup by game terms France would have developed the tech on the first available turn,  However since we arnt doing any development pre startup everyone will get them at the same time.  As I have stated I have directed anyone using the 12/40 to change it to 12/35 for pre startup ships.

Please provide links to back up those claims. Most of the 12"/40 guns I have found have a service entry date of post 1900. The gun rules work for the vast majority of historical guns, and the time has long passed for asking for there alteration, even if it was up for discution.

France has them in 1895/1898 (not only L40, also L45): http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_12-40_m1893.htm
Russia has them in 1895: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_12-40_m1895.htm

Also when I said "[e]veryone is using the L40s anyways" I meant that in reference to Springsharp simulations, not that all nations had them in the 1890s.

[Darman]

I tried simming the Fuji and I've redone already, snip I think took a look at the file and forwarded it back to me.  Anyways, for the Fuji-class I made a note that its 12"/40 should be a 12"/35 because I couldn't fix the file. 

[Delta Force]

Yup by game terms France would have developed the tech on the first available turn,  However since we arnt doing any development pre startup everyone will get them at the same time.  As I have stated I have directed anyone using the 12/40 to change it to 12/35 for pre startup ships.

I assumed it was common in the 1890s, but I was only looking at French and Russian ships. I'll just go with L35s and more armor.

[KWorld]

On tech research, could we get an example of a country trying to research a tech before its "ready"?  For example, a 1902 technology (like direct-drive turbines) that a country starts researching in 1900?  An example of a country researching a tech it's ignored until later (say researching a 1902 tech in 1904) would also be good.

[KWorld]

Also, I thought we'd decided to go with slightly higher percentages for oil firing than the rules are currently showing?

Or have the transition be more gradual:

1901: Mixed firing: allows bunkers with up to 25% percentage of oil.
1905: Oil firing: allows bunkers with over 25% percentage of oil.

I like it, if the 1906 date for pure oil-firing is kept. Its a year, so not that much difference.

[Tanthalas]

No the decision was to increase the first oil fire tech to 25% instead of the original 10%.  as I have repeatedly stated the rules are in general an average, allowing the vast majority of ships if not all ships to be built.

Also, I thought we'd decided to go with slightly higher percentages for oil firing than the rules are currently showing?

Or have the transition be more gradual:

1901: Mixed firing: allows bunkers with up to 25% percentage of oil.
1905: Oil firing: allows bunkers with over 25% percentage of oil.

I like it, if the 1906 date for pure oil-firing is kept. Its a year, so not that much difference.

[KWorld]

Currently the first oil tech is showing 20%, not 25%.

[snip]

that alteration was intentional.

On tech research, could we get an example of a country trying to research a tech before its "ready"?  For example, a 1902 technology (like direct-drive turbines) that a country starts researching in 1900?  An example of a country researching a tech it's ignored until later (say researching a 1902 tech in 1904) would also be good.

So, say you decide to begin research the 1902 Direct Drive turbine tech on turn 1. You take the base cost of $1 and multiply it by e^(1902-1900) So the total cost would be $7.39 per half until the tech is completed. Since the tech is listed as two years away from the game year, six months is added to the research time. That means you will pay $7.39 per turn for at least five turns and at most seven turns.

[Nobody]

So, say you decide to begin research the 1902 Direct Drive turbine tech on turn 1. You take the base cost of $1 and multiply it by e^(1902-1900) So the total cost would be $7.39 per half until the tech is completed. Since the tech is listed as two years away from the game year, six months is added to the research time. That means you will pay $7.39 per turn for at least five turns and at most seven turns.

That rises a number of questions for me.
1. is that already explaind in the rules section (I haven't had a chance to read them yet)
2. do we really need to use e? How about something simpler, like 2?
3. I'm not sure if it is a good idea (or fair) to use the starting value for the entire research time. Also sounds like a nightmare to track as a moderator.
4. (related to 2) its a very speed function, not sure if that is desirable.

5. I should read the rules already published next, before further comments.