Tans Unsane Designs

[Kaiser Kirk]

The hull dimensions are very close to what I wound up with for the Reginas. I needed length to fit my double stacked casements in to explore the heavy intermediate battery. I think the best speed I wound up with was 22, then I backed down to 20. I believe she's at 0.554. Well, if I ever have funds to complete her.

As for proper BC....I can't give a definitive answer.  It's one of those things that doesn't get cited in most sources.  Worse, you get some ridiculously low BCs if you look at USN vessels in the 1940s once they started doing that bow extension I think someone figured Alaska at ~.49 or something. However USN ships of that era not only had an unconventional hull form, but sacrificed the TDS depth forward, and used STS steel for basic construction - not a good basis of comparison.

I did reverse engineer a bunch of vessels in Springsharp. Cruiser built vessels seem to have been from around .5 and up, battleships mid 0.5s to mid 0.6s. Bigger ships usually have higher BCs, not exclusively, but oft the heavy ship with slimmer BCs have a service history that alludes to them being too lightly built.  For me, I'll tend to mutter about it for cruisers under 0.48, for BCs under 0.55, and ships over 0.65.  That doesn't mean I'm right, just pointing out that things seem to be pushed compared to historical vessels.

Be happy to hear other opinions & data though.

[Kaiser Kirk]

This reminds me of Foxy's pre-dread battlecruisers.

You too?

[The Rock Doctor]

This reminds me of Foxy's pre-dread battlecruisers.

You too?

No sim is truly complete without a rag-tag horde of obsolete destroyers somewhere.

[Tanthalas]

the only battlecruiser I have worked with extensivly is the Derfflinger classand I know their BC comes in around .510, as to looking like a DF predread BC, well someone has to do it.  I like to push my tech as hard as I can within the rules, although I realy do intend to go more German style for my eventual Battle Cruisers (11 and 12 inch guns forever begin did you know you can get 8X11/45 aBXy on 12000 tons and still hit 23 knots)

@Rock Hey I dont have a true horde of destroyers... well not yet anyway  :P

[Tanthalas]

My first atempt at an actual "Battlecruiser" Honestly I may end up building it even though im not exactly happy with the armor level... BC is on the low side but it is in the range where many of the late ACs/early BCs fell so while the ships might have issues with hull stress long term I felt that I wouldnt know that... Hypotheticly it would be capable of an 8 gun broadside (although arcs would be linited obviously, still I think it would work), and yes it has wing turrets (GAH I hate wing turrets, but atleast im doing somthing different for a change).

Johan van Galen, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1905

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,698 t standard; 16,324 t normal; 17,625 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (529.00 ft / 529.00 ft) x 80.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.64 ft)
   (161.24 m / 161.24 m) x 24.38 m  x (8.53 / 9.03 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck centre
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,768 lbs / 3,070 kg
      2nd Torpedoes
      4 - 0.0" / 0 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   179.00 ft / 54.56 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.50" / 38 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm  Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,526 ihp / 25,010 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,926 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   721 - 938

Cost:
   £1.549 million / $6.198 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 4,073 tons, 25.0 %
      - Belts: 2,123 tons, 13.0 %
      - Armament: 916 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 895 tons, 5.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,513 tons, 21.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,120 tons, 31.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,324 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 101 tons, 0.6 %
      - Hull below water: 24 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 57 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,435 lbs / 7,455 Kg = 24.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 13.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.44
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.53

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.482 / 0.492
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.61 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -4.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forward deck:   6.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Aft deck:   56.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Quarter deck:   19.00 %,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.75 ft / 5.41 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,748 Square feet or 2,578 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 137 lbs/sq ft or 669 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.84
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

101 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
47 tons: Reserve

[The Rock Doctor]

Not bad, not bad. 

I've been kind of contemplating a VDT clone as an Ottoman BC, but I haven't quite sorted out what I'm doing about capital ships in the dreadnought era.  I don't think the Ottos can afford to build useful quantities of both BBs and BCs, so something's going to give.

[Tanthalas]

I think honestly I will be better served building Battlecruisers given my commitments, this one is more or less what SMS Blucher might have looked like if Germany had known GB was building the I's (instead of the ACs Germany thought they were building).  Obviously I have nad to make some concessions to our tech rules but still it works, and I have the drawing like half finished (it would be capable of limited cross deck fire), so if I get motivated to finish the drawing I will likley build it.

*edit*
In alot of ways it isn't what I realy want, but until I get decent SHP turbines im not sure I could build what I want to... Idealy I would build 8X11 or preferably 8X12 battleships that while slightly slower than BCs would have heavier armor and be faster than BBs, and then build a sort of "Super Cruiser" with 6X11 and BC speed/armour.  That however wont work untill the next generation of turbines (when I can go to full turbine power plants)

[Tanthalas]

This is more what my ships will look like with 1905 (engine year 1909) engines.  Sorta kinda Derfflinger light, and 1906 is the earliest I could realisticly build it(more likley 1907 but that 1 year dosnt realy matter for SS).  Armour Protection is reasonable, speed is good, guns might be a bit week but they are OTL realistic for the laydown date so im not gona complain to much.

Pieter Florisse, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1906 (Engine 1909)

Displacement:
   17,000 t light; 17,782 t standard; 19,606 t normal; 21,065 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (564.79 ft / 560.00 ft) x 87.00 ft x (29.00 / 30.59 ft)
   (172.15 m / 170.69 m) x 26.52 m  x (8.84 / 9.32 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1906 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      10 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1906 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mount, 1906 Model
     1 x Single mount on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 6,808 lbs / 3,088 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   364.00 ft / 110.95 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   5.00" / 127 mm   195.98 ft / 59.73 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   364.00 ft / 110.95 m   9.29 ft / 2.83 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   5.00" / 127 mm      9.00" / 229 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.50" / 38 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 47,853 shp / 35,698 Kw = 24.58 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,283 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   827 - 1,076

Cost:
   £1.498 million / $5.994 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,200 tons, 6.1 %
      - Guns: 1,200 tons, 6.1 %
   Armour: 6,521 tons, 33.3 %
      - Belts: 3,390 tons, 17.3 %
      - Armament: 1,278 tons, 6.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,570 tons, 8.0 %
      - Conning Towers: 282 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 2,369 tons, 12.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6,522 tons, 33.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,606 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 389 tons, 2.0 %
      - Hull below water: 24 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 345 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28,409 lbs / 12,886 Kg = 42.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 5.0 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.486 / 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 11.77 degrees
   Stern overhang: -5.00 ft / -1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  21.25 ft / 6.48 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  21.25 ft / 6.48 m,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  18.50 ft / 5.64 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  16.00 ft / 4.88 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.29 ft / 5.57 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 66.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 32,045 Square feet or 2,977 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 152 lbs/sq ft or 742 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

389 tons Misc. Weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
18 tons: 3 reloads per torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 305 tons
250 tons: Fire control
25 tons: Long range wireless
10 tons: Flag facilities
60 tons: Reserve

[Tanthalas]

and now a much more me version of BC-1905, IDK honestly which I prefer the one with wing turrets or this one... Sort of a Lion layout, was what I was trying for...

Johan van Galen, Unified Netherlands Armoured Frigate laid down 1905

Displacement:
   14,000 t light; 14,699 t standard; 16,325 t normal; 17,626 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (529.00 ft / 529.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (28.00 / 29.65 ft)
   (161.24 m / 161.24 m) x 24.08 m  x (8.53 / 9.04 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, aft deck forward
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 39.99lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 6,768 lbs / 3,070 kg
      2nd Torpedoes
      4 - 0.0" / 0 mm, 0.00 ft / 0.00 m torpedoes - 0.000 t each, 0.000 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   350.00 ft / 106.68 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   3.00" / 76 mm   179.00 ft / 54.56 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   250.00 ft / 76.20 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.50" / 38 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 0.75" / 19 mm  Quarter deck: 0.75" / 19 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, reciprocating cruising steam engines and steam turbines
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 33,560 ihp / 25,036 Kw = 23.00 kts
   Range 6,600nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,928 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   721 - 938

Cost:
   £1.550 million / $6.200 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
      - Guns: 1,193 tons, 7.3 %
   Armour: 4,041 tons, 24.8 %
      - Belts: 2,120 tons, 13.0 %
      - Armament: 893 tons, 5.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 889 tons, 5.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 139 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,516 tons, 21.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,059 tons, 31.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,325 tons, 14.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 191 tons, 1.2 %
      - Hull below water: 24 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 147 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,423 lbs / 6,542 Kg = 21.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.488 / 0.498
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.70 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -4.50 ft / -1.37 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   19.00 %,  24.00 ft / 7.32 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   31.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Aft deck:   31.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Quarter deck:   19.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.10 ft / 4.60 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 101.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27,551 Square feet or 2,560 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 684 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

191 tons Misc. weight total
Hull below water: 24 tons
1 ton Bow: 18" torpedo tube
4 tons sides: 18" torpedo tubes (one at either end of Citidel per side)
1 ton Stern: 18" torpedo tube
Hull above water: 20 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
10 tons: Reserve
On Main deck: 57 tons
10 tons: Flag facilities
137 tons: Reserve

[Tanthalas]

Smallest Dreadnaught possible (with reasonable armour and firepower obviously).  I may have just managed it, although odds are someone will do better they would have to either reduce the armour or accept lower firepower...

Proposal 1900-06, Unified Netherlands Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   12,000 t light; 12,648 t standard; 14,503 t normal; 15,987 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (26.00 / 28.07 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m  x (7.92 / 8.56 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 85 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 40.00lbs / 18.14kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     12 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      Weight of broadside 6,608 lbs / 2,997 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   13.50 ft / 4.11 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   161.00 ft / 49.07 m   10.67 ft / 3.25 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      7.00" / 178 mm
   2nd:   5.00" / 127 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 19,630 shp / 14,644 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,338 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   660 - 859

Cost:
   £1.208 million / $4.833 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,167 tons, 8.0 %
      - Guns: 1,167 tons, 8.0 %
   Armour: 4,826 tons, 33.3 %
      - Belts: 2,626 tons, 18.1 %
      - Armament: 976 tons, 6.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,223 tons, 8.4 %
   Machinery: 1,620 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,322 tons, 29.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,503 tons, 17.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 66 tons, 0.5 %
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 26 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,835 lbs / 9,904 Kg = 32.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 6.4 ft / 1.9 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.43
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.537 / 0.548
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   17.50 %,  21.00 ft / 6.40 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarter deck:   17.50 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  18.00 ft / 5.49 m
      - Average freeboard:      17.37 ft / 5.29 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,063 Square feet or 2,328 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 133 lbs/sq ft or 652 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Tanthalas]

Proly wont build it but I really liked this ship, so thought I would post it here in case someone else decided it fit for their navy.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   13,400 t light; 14,139 t standard; 14,965 t normal; 15,625 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (27.00 / 27.93 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m  x (8.23 / 8.51 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 666.00lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.92lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.27lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,410 lbs / 3,361 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   160.98 ft / 49.07 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 20,000 shp / 14,920 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 3,984nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,486 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   676 - 879

Cost:
   £1.303 million / $5.212 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,306 tons, 8.7 %
      - Guns: 1,306 tons, 8.7 %
   Armour: 5,629 tons, 37.6 %
      - Belts: 3,006 tons, 20.1 %
      - Armament: 1,190 tons, 7.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,224 tons, 8.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 209 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 1,667 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,664 tons, 31.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,565 tons, 10.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 135 tons, 0.9 %
      - On freeboard deck: 135 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     21,632 lbs / 9,812 Kg = 32.5 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 14.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.83

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.534 / 0.539
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -8.50 ft / -2.59 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Aft deck:   50.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.65 ft / 5.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 73.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 134.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,980 Square feet or 2,321 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 141 lbs/sq ft or 688 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.53
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

Please, test this SS with VTE engines, without any other changement.

(I'm not sure that early turbines are economical...)


Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

Please, test this SS with VTE engines, without any other changement.

(I'm not sure that early turbines are economical...)


Jef  ;)

Had to let her gain 1K tons and drop a little armour to make the VTEs work but here it is Jef.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1904 (Engine 1905)

Displacement:
   14,500 t light; 15,260 t standard; 15,970 t normal; 16,538 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 79.00 ft x (27.00 / 27.77 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 24.08 m  x (8.23 / 8.46 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 45.0 cal guns - 665.99lbs / 302.09kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 108.93lbs / 49.41kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      20 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1904 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      4 - 4.00" / 102 mm 45.0 cal guns - 32.28lbs / 14.64kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1904 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 7,410 lbs / 3,361 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   160.98 ft / 49.07 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   299.00 ft / 91.14 m   13.00 ft / 3.96 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   4.00" / 102 mm      8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.25" / 57 mm
   Forecastle: 1.25" / 32 mm  Quarter deck: 1.25" / 32 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 6.00" / 152 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 21,082 ihp / 15,727 Kw = 20.01 kts
   Range 3,984nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,279 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   709 - 923

Cost:
   £1.536 million / $6.144 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,306 tons, 8.2 %
      - Guns: 1,306 tons, 8.2 %
   Armour: 5,251 tons, 32.9 %
      - Belts: 2,848 tons, 17.8 %
      - Armament: 1,190 tons, 7.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 994 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Towers: 219 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 3,055 tons, 19.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,754 tons, 29.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,470 tons, 9.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 135 tons, 0.8 %
      - On freeboard deck: 135 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,686 lbs / 8,022 Kg = 26.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.60
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.74

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.570 / 0.574
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -8.50 ft / -2.59 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  20.50 ft / 6.25 m
      - Forward deck:   15.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Aft deck:   50.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.00 ft / 5.79 m,  19.50 ft / 5.94 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.65 ft / 5.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,834 Square feet or 2,400 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 140 lbs/sq ft or 682 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.34
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

1667t for turbines - 20 000 shp
3055t for VTE - 21 000 shp

Turbines are lighter.

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

oh for sure mate, just not quite as small and well armoured with VTEs as with Turbines.  admittedly it also required less fuel.

1667t for turbines - 20 000 shp
3055t for VTE - 21 000 shp

Turbines are lighter.

Jef  ;)