Logi's Design Studies

[KWorld]

That's simply not true. But your logic, the Chinese merchants would have been armed for over a millennium since the plague of piracy along Chinese coasts has been a long-standing thing. Yet the fact that the pirates continued their business without having as many weapons as you claim to need, means merchant ships, despite the threat were not armed to repel them. (In fact many just paid tribute or gave away part of their cargo to avoid trouble)

Another point is that an armed merchant is far different than a warship in that merchants are not well trained in gunnery and other tactics. When push comes to shove, most of them will panic. The warship has the advantage in both superior construction material, training, and experience. We had this discussion in N3.

Also add that most shipping in the region are still junks, an all black iron-hulled ship will still scare many a merchant.

If we look at the Battle of Tonkin River for the example of the armament of the typical pirates of the period, we see they had 10-6 long 18-lbers guns for each junk. That means a broadside of 5-3 18-lbers, ie 90-54lb broadside weight. The 6" gun fires a 80 lb shell and the centerline mounting means a a broadside weight of 160lb. (Not to mention the 6" gun fires further, is more "awe"-inspiring, and is more accurate at the ranges they duel).

You're making a lot of assumptions there, and keep in mind I wasn't around during N3.  When I said "merchants", I'm not talking about only Chinese junks (though they'll be there as well).  Are the Chinese or Korean fleets the ONLY things you're planning on raiding?  Unlikely.  If you wish to believe that 2 guns is sufficient for all purposes, I'm not going to argue.

[Logi]

Well even then, the point stands.

Merchants are not well-trained in gunnery and that sort of situation. If it was as you imply such a good idea, why didn't Britain do it instead of sending convoy escorts for their ships.

[Logi]

In any case, after some modification.

H-18 Scheme 3,  Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Corvette (Unarmoured)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 802 t standard; 839 t normal; 868 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (199.18 ft / 196.00 ft) x 20.00 ft x (12.00 / 12.35 ft)
   (60.71 m / 59.74 m) x 6.10 m  x (3.66 / 3.77 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 200 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 320 lbs / 145 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.50" / 13 mm
   Forecastle: 0.50" / 13 mm  Quarter deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,227 ihp / 1,661 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 66 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   77 - 101

Cost:
   £0.090 million / $0.359 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 26 tons, 3.1 %
      - Guns: 26 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 32 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 6 tons, 0.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 27 tons, 3.2 %
   Machinery: 392 tons, 46.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 257 tons, 30.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 89 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 5.0 %
      - Above deck: 42 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     183 lbs / 83 Kg = 2.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.624 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  8.75 ft / 2.67 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.49 ft / 1.98 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,879 Square feet or 267 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 52 lbs/sq ft or 252 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.67
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room

Sail speed       =        7.0 knots

[KWorld]

Hmmmm, a war canoe, basically.  Better gun power than the previous design, obviously.  Guns to the middle of the ship will have limited arcs, due to rigging, stacks, masts, etc.


Gun shields are not reasonable for period designs, they should be removed.  Not sure that the 13mm decks add much value here, if a shell hits and explodes, the fragments will likely be big enough to penetrate that.

[Logi]

The USN uses similar thickness splinter shields. I'll remove the gun shields as suggested.

[Logi]

Slightly thickened splinter armor and removed gun shields.

H-18 Scheme 3,  Commerce Raider laid down 1870
Corvette (Unarmoured)

Displacement:
   750 t light; 803 t standard; 839 t normal; 868 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (198.48 ft / 196.00 ft) x 20.00 ft x (12.00 / 12.35 ft)
   (60.50 m / 59.74 m) x 6.10 m  x (3.66 / 3.77 m)

Armament:
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.0 cal guns - 80.01lbs / 36.29kg shells, 200 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts, 1870 Model
     4 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 320 lbs / 145 kg

Armour:
   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.63" / 16 mm
   Forecastle: 0.63" / 16 mm  Quarter deck: 0.63" / 16 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 2,228 ihp / 1,662 Kw = 16.00 kts
   Range 1,000nm at 7.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 66 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   77 - 101

Cost:
   £0.090 million / $0.359 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 26 tons, 3.1 %
      - Guns: 26 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 34 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 34 tons, 4.0 %
   Machinery: 392 tons, 46.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 257 tons, 30.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 89 tons, 10.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 42 tons, 5.0 %
      - Above deck: 42 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     183 lbs / 83 Kg = 2.4 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 0.5 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.624 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.80 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  9.25 ft / 2.82 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.53 ft / 1.99 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 164.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 44.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,880 Square feet or 268 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 67 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 51 lbs/sq ft or 251 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.69
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room

Sail speed       =        7.0 knots

[Logi]

I tried my hand at a Kongo style ship. I call it a battlecruiser, but it probably closer to a fast battleship than a battlecruiser.

Compared with OTL Kongo (before reconstruction):
- Slightly longer, wider, and deeper.
- 1 additional 356mm (14") gun crowded into 1 less turret (3 vs 4)
- 0.5 kn slower (27 kn vs 27.5 kn)
- No AA and smaller secondaries (140mm vs 152mm)
- No Torpedo Tubes

- Much heavier belt (340mm vs 203mm) and deck (90mm vs 70mm) armor
- Much heavier gun face (460mm vs 254mm) and side/roof (150mm vs 76mm) armor

- No upper belt (0mm vs 152mm) or end belt (0mm vs 76mm)
- Practically no reserve space/weight (only 6t misc weight)
- No torpedo bulkhead (but neither did the original Kongo)

Ibuki, IJN Battlecruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1912)

Displacement:
   25,000 t light; 26,325 t standard; 28,847 t normal; 30,864 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (721.77 ft / 718.50 ft) x 95.14 ft x (29.53 / 31.08 ft)
   (220.00 m / 219.00 m) x 29.00 m  x (9.00 / 9.47 m)

Armament:
      9 - 14.02" / 356 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1,499.14lbs / 680.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 83.78lbs / 38.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1911 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 14,833 lbs / 6,728 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   465.88 ft / 142.00 m   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   18.1" / 460 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      10.0" / 255 mm
   2nd:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 80,000 shp / 59,680 Kw = 27.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,539 tons

Complement:
   1,106 - 1,438

Cost:
   £2.755 million / $11.021 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,266 tons, 11.3 %
      - Guns: 3,266 tons, 11.3 %
   Armour: 7,871 tons, 27.3 %
      - Belts: 3,031 tons, 10.5 %
      - Armament: 2,118 tons, 7.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,450 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 271 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,190 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 10,667 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,847 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 0.0 %
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     33,717 lbs / 15,294 Kg = 24.5 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 5.5 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.72
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.508
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.55 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.01 ft / 6.10 m,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m,  17.72 ft / 5.40 m
      - Average freeboard:      18.08 ft / 5.51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 140.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,555 Square feet or 4,232 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 943 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

In the corresponding 1924 reconstruction some changes were made.
- 340mm external belt replaced with 340mm @ 20 degrees internal covering the same height (3.5m)
- Machinery replaced and uprated from 80,000 shp to 115,000 shp yielding 29.01 kn (+2 kn)
- FCS and Radar added (total of 300t misc weight)
- A few additional bilge pumps added (on the order of 4 tons)
- 4 Layer TDS with total depth of 10.6m added (each bulkhead is 25mm thick and has 1.325m or 4.34' of liquid-filled void space)

Ibuki (Reconstructed), IJN Battlecruiser laid down 1911 (Engine 1924)

Displacement:
   28,600 t light; 29,987 t standard; 31,926 t normal; 33,477 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (721.98 ft / 718.50 ft) x 95.14 ft (Bulges 110.24 ft) x (28.22 / 29.41 ft)
   (220.06 m / 219.00 m) x 29.00 m (Bulges 33.60 m)  x (8.60 / 8.96 m)

Armament:
      9 - 14.02" / 356 mm 50.0 cal guns - 1,499.14lbs / 680.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1911 Model
     3 x 3-gun mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 5.51" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 83.78lbs / 38.00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1920 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 14,833 lbs / 6,728 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   465.88 ft / 142.00 m   12.27 ft / 3.74 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Additional damage containing bulkheads:
      3.94" / 100 mm   465.88 ft / 142.00 m   20.67 ft / 6.30 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 75.46 ft / 23.00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   18.1" / 460 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      10.0" / 255 mm
   2nd:   7.87" / 200 mm   3.94" / 100 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.54" / 90 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13.39" / 340 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 115,000 shp / 85,790 Kw = 29.01 kts
   Range 8,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,491 tons

Complement:
   1,193 - 1,552

Cost:
   £2.965 million / $11.860 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,300 tons, 10.3 %
      - Guns: 3,300 tons, 10.3 %
   Armour: 9,573 tons, 30.0 %
      - Belts: 3,239 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,403 tons, 4.4 %
      - Armament: 2,191 tons, 6.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 2,450 tons, 7.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 290 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 3,788 tons, 11.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,635 tons, 36.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,326 tons, 10.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 304 tons, 1.0 %
      - Hull below water: 4 tons
      - Above deck: 300 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     38,375 lbs / 17,407 Kg = 27.9 x 14.0 " / 356 mm shells or 7.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.14
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 18.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.46
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.503
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.52 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 9.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.10 ft / 0.03 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.33 ft / 6.50 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m,  19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      19.39 ft / 5.91 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 139.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 45,548 Square feet or 4,232 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 103 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 201 lbs/sq ft or 981 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.21
      - Overall: 1.00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Logi]

I tried creating an alternative to the Fletcher class. As compared:

40% increase in standard displacement
20% increase in 5" gun armament (also 5"/54 vs 5"/38)
        that is a 51% increase in throw weight (not to mention accuracy and range)
60% increase in light AA armament
50% increase in Torpedo armament (also 24" vs 21")
50% increase in endurance (8,221nm vs 5,500nm @ 15kn)

Lost of 1 kn in top speed
Probably better seakeeping/stability than the Fletcher

Like the OTL Fletcher, it carries a small amount of armor over the turrets, magazines, and machinery spaces to prevent splinters formed by bomb hits 30yds out from penetrating the bulkheads and causing severe flooding.

Fletcher Alt, USN Destroyer laid down 1941

Displacement:
   2,690 t light; 2,868 t standard; 3,416 t normal; 3,855 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (458.16 ft / 449.15 ft) x 39.04 ft x (17.06 / 18.43 ft)
   (139.65 m / 136.90 m) x 11.90 m  x (5.20 / 5.62 m)

Armament:
      6 - 5.00" / 127 mm 54.0 cal guns - 69.45lbs / 31.50kg shells, 300 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1941 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 56.0 cal guns - 1.98lbs / 0.90kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1941 Model
     4 x Quad mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      16 - 0.79" / 20.0 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.26lbs / 0.12kg shells, 2,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1941 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 453 lbs / 205 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.51" / 13 mm   0.51" / 13 mm      0.51" / 13 mm
   2nd:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.51" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.51" / 13 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.51" / 13 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 60,000 shp / 44,760 Kw = 35.52 kts
   Range 4,500nm at 20.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 987 tons

Complement:
   223 - 290

Cost:
   £2.206 million / $8.824 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 122 tons, 3.6 %
      - Guns: 122 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 103 tons, 3.0 %
      - Armament: 18 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 83 tons, 2.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 3 tons, 0.1 %
   Machinery: 1,522 tons, 44.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 803 tons, 23.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 726 tons, 21.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 140 tons, 4.1 %
      - On freeboard deck: 90 tons
      - Above deck: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     951 lbs / 431 Kg = 15.2 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 1.5 ft / 0.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and large transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.400 / 0.417
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 24.24 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 27.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.66 ft / 0.20 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  16.08 ft / 4.90 m,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  15.75 ft / 4.80 m,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Average freeboard:      15.81 ft / 4.82 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 159.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 150.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 11,201 Square feet or 1,041 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 40 lbs/sq ft or 195 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight - 140t:
25t - Radar
25t - FCS
90t - 3 x 5 610mm Torpedo Tubes rotating centerline, 1 reload each

[Logi]

A Yubari that isn't overstressed and unstable.

Yubari, IJN Light Cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   4,090 t light; 4,262 t standard; 4,648 t normal; 4,957 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (458.89 ft / 453.41 ft) x 44.62 ft x (18.70 / 19.55 ft)
   (139.87 m / 138.20 m) x 13.60 m  x (5.70 / 5.96 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm 50.0 cal guns - 88.63lbs / 40.20kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1922 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.30" / 7.7 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.01lbs / 0.01kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1922 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides, aft deck forward
      Weight of broadside 709 lbs / 322 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.50" / 38 mm   393.70 ft / 120.00 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 134 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.98" / 25 mm   0.51" / 13 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 0.98" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 50,000 shp / 37,300 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 695 tons

Complement:
   280 - 365

Cost:
   £1.242 million / $4.967 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 169 tons, 3.6 %
      - Guns: 169 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 432 tons, 9.3 %
      - Belts: 226 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armament: 17 tons, 0.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 190 tons, 4.1 %
   Machinery: 1,696 tons, 36.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,769 tons, 38.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 558 tons, 12.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 24 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 24 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,991 lbs / 1,357 Kg = 35.7 x 5.5 " / 140 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 1.8 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 14.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.13

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.430 / 0.439
   Length to Beam Ratio: 10.16 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.29 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.28 ft / -1.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  21.98 ft / 6.70 m,  19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m,  15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.46 ft / 5.02 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 133.3 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,704 Square feet or 1,180 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 386 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.06
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Misc Weight: 24t
24t - 2x2 610mm Torpedo tubes rotating centerline, 1 reload each

[Logi]

I like how quad turrets look.
This design uses heavy APs for the 155 main battery and lightweight rounds for the high velocity 115mm DPs.

The 40mms are concentrated amidships near the funnels and can be substituted with any equivalent AA weaponry.
Their firing arcs are sacrificed in lieu of the 115s, whom are presumed to do the majority of the AA work.

Technically this design should be using a transom stern as it's based on the IRL Brooklyn class, but that isn't in the rule set IIRC. The 115s would also look somewhat similar to the 130mm quad DP turrets on the Dunkerque, but downsized and with a reasonable shell weight for AA work. The 130mm quad on Dunkerque seems to be roughly 5m wide from pictures, just a bit wider than the USN 5"/38 twin(~4.6m). A 115mm/60 turret should be roughly the size of the 5"/38 but with a much longer (+2m) barrel.

S1, L Light Cruiser laid down 1930

Displacement:
    12,125 t light; 12,740 t standard; 14,000 t normal; 15,008 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
    (590.55 ft / 590.55 ft) x 68.90 ft x (24.08 / 25.38 ft)
    (180.00 m / 180.00 m) x 21.00 m  x (7.34 / 7.74 m)

Armament:
      16 - 6.10" / 155 mm 60.0 cal guns - 134.48lbs / 61.00kg shells, 150 per gun
      Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
      4 x 4-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
        2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.53" / 115 mm 60.0 cal guns - 47.40lbs / 21.50kg shells, 300 per gun
      Dual purpose guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1930 Model
      4 x 4-gun mounts on sides, evenly spread
      16 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 60.0 cal guns - 2.20lbs / 1.00kg shells, 1,500 per gun
      Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1930 Model
      4 x Quad mounts on sides, aft deck forward
        4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2,945 lbs / 1,336 kg

Armour:
  - Belts:        Width (max)    Length (avg)        Height (avg)
    Main:    6.10" / 155 mm    383.86 ft / 117.00 m    12.20 ft / 3.72 m
    Ends:    Unarmoured
      Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length
      Main Belt inclined 20.00 degrees (positive = in)

  - Gun armour:    Face (max)    Other gunhouse (avg)    Barbette/hoist (max)
    Main:    6.50" / 165 mm    1.97" / 50 mm        6.10" / 155 mm
    2nd:    0.59" / 15 mm    0.39" / 10 mm        0.39" / 10 mm

  - Armoured deck - single deck:
    For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm

  - Conning towers: Forward 6.10" / 155 mm, Aft 1.97" / 50 mm

Machinery:
    Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
    Geared drive, 4 shafts, 106,369 shp / 79,351 Kw = 32.00 kts
    Range 8,000nm at 15.00 kts
    Bunker at max displacement = 2,269 tons

Complement:
    643 - 836

Cost:
    £5.157 million / $20.627 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
    Armament: 1,103 tons, 7.9 %
      - Guns: 1,103 tons, 7.9 %
    Armour: 2,744 tons, 19.6 %
      - Belts: 1,192 tons, 8.5 %
      - Armament: 641 tons, 4.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 810 tons, 5.8 %
      - Conning Towers: 101 tons, 0.7 %
    Machinery: 3,223 tons, 23.0 %
    Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,830 tons, 34.5 %
    Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,875 tons, 13.4 %
    Miscellaneous weights: 224 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull below water: 15 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 84 tons
      - Above deck: 125 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
    Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
      16,676 lbs / 7,564 Kg = 146.8 x 6.1 " / 155 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
    Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
    Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
    Roll period: 15.8 seconds
    Steadiness    - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
            - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
    Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
    Hull has a flush deck,
      a normal bow and a cruiser stern
    Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.500 / 0.509
    Length to Beam Ratio: 8.57 : 1
    'Natural speed' for length: 24.30 kts
    Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
    Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
    Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
    Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
    Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
                Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:    20.00 %,  26.25 ft / 8.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forward deck:    30.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Aft deck:    35.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Quarter deck:    15.00 %,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m,  22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Average freeboard:        23.23 ft / 7.08 m
    Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
    Space    - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99.0 %
        - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 184.4 %
    Waterplane Area: 27,112 Square feet or 2,519 Square metres
    Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 109 %
    Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 606 Kg/sq metre
    Hull strength (Relative):
        - Cross-sectional: 0.93
        - Longitudinal: 1.83
        - Overall: 1.00
    Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
    Excellent accommodation and workspace room

3.5m belt inclined 20 degrees
Geared drives = 15 kt @ 8,800nm

Above Deck:
100t FCS
25t Radar

On Deck:
80t: 2 floatplane catapult, planes, and hangar
4t: 2 "Y" twin-DC throwers with spares

Below water:
15t: Early sonar & keel dome

[The Rock Doctor]

I like quads for a lot of things but am not using them in this iteration of the sim.

Nice to see you, hope all's well.

[Kaiser Kirk]

The addition of transoms to the ruleset is being considered along with other 1930 techs. As part of that I put together the best sim of Brooklyn that I could determine. The weird USN cruiser belt designs is proving problematic, Well, to be fair the HMS Aresthusa is proving difficult to model- but the hull shape/shp definitely points to the 'transom, small'setting. 

I've started my journey towards a Brooklyn-style vessel with 165mm & 115mm with heavyweight shells, the Poulsek Class. Only 8,000 tons with Mount & Hoist to fit inside our cruiser rules, but 32knots and a broadside of 8 x 165mm, but a forward fire of 8x165mm as well !


As for Quad turrets, in this iteration, I decided to explore them. Normally I like Two-gun and Three-gun ships.
But most 'Parthian' capital ships are sporting Four-Gun Quads now. 
For cruisers, there is substantial benefit to falling under the 'cruiser rules'  and using M&H.
Rotating weight argues against triples and quads with M&H if I want the mounts armored, which I do.
So no Quads in that size range - yet.