Potential Ottoman Ships

[KWorld]

and for AH they realy should be Krupp guns.

Minor problem....

>    Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

The other question would be, where do you get 9" guns from?  Krupp built 9.4" guns, Armstrong and Elswick could build 9.2" guns, but 9"?

Or Skoda, of course.

[Tanthalas]

Thats a given isnt it?

and for AH they realy should be Krupp guns.

Minor problem....

>    Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

The other question would be, where do you get 9" guns from?  Krupp built 9.4" guns, Armstrong and Elswick could build 9.2" guns, but 9"?

Or Skoda, of course.

[Delta Force]

Minor problem....

>    Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

The other question would be, where do you get 9" guns from?  Krupp built 9.4" guns, Armstrong and Elswick could build 9.2" guns, but 9"?

The Ottoman ironclad İclâliye had 228 mm breechloaders and was built by Austria-Hungary. The Osmâniye and Fettâh class ironclads had 229 mm muzzleloaders and were built by the British.

[KWorld]

Minor problem....

>    Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

The other question would be, where do you get 9" guns from?  Krupp built 9.4" guns, Armstrong and Elswick could build 9.2" guns, but 9"?

The Ottoman ironclad İclâliye had 228 mm breechloaders and was built by Austria-Hungary. The Osmâniye and Fettâh class ironclads had 229 mm muzzleloaders and were built by the British.

Those are old black-powder guns, must be said.  I'm sure you could find 9" Dahlgren's too, but you wouldn't want them in the mid 1890s....

[Darman]

I'm so used to working with inches and feet that I forgot that there might not be 9" guns.  I'll use the historic guns from the period. 

[Darman]

If anyone is interested the Austrians are using the Budapest and Swarzenburg designs for 4 battleships total.  A similar but larger design using either the 240mm or the 280mm main guns and the same secondary/tertiary armaments (150mm and 65mm respectively) from 1898 or 1899 would be greatly appreciated, as would any armored cruiser, protected cruiser, destroyer, or torpedo boat designs, preferably using the same guns. 
Armored Cruiser: max 2 large 240mm guns, or large number of 150mm or intermediary guns.  range: 2,-3,000nm, 6in armor.  450mm torpedoes
Protected Cruiser: 150mm main battery, range 3,-4,000nm, good sprint speed, 450mm torpedoes
Destroyer: 2 150mm primary or more lighter guns.  450mm torpedoes.  good sprint speed.  ~1,000nm range
Torpedo Boat: few 65mm guns, 450mm torpedoes, best sprint speed possible, ~500nm range


(any recommendations would be greatly appreciated, whether its for changing requirements a bit or for a design, I know everyone else will be busy).  I'm going to be making a similar post for the Ottomans

[KWorld]

It's really far too early to think about 15cm guns on torpedo boat destroyers, either Hotchkiss 9 or 12 pounders (65 or 76mm) are much more realistic.  Historically Austrian protected cruisers from the 1890s (the Zenta class) carried a 12cm main battery (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Zenta).  The A-H navy had 2 ACs at this time, including one that was almost involved in the shooting part of the Spanish-American War by arriving off Santiago de Cuba the day the Spanish fleet sortied to their doom.  Those two cruisers can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Kaiserin_und_K%C3%B6nigin_Maria_Theresia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Kaiser_Karl_VI

[KWorld]

Here's a design based on Kaiser Karl VI.

Kaiser Karl VI, Austro-Hungarian Empire Armored Cruiser laid down 1898

Displacement:
   6,340 t light; 6,583 t standard; 6,942 t normal; 7,230 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (396.98 ft / 387.14 ft) x 56.76 ft x (20.67 / 21.33 ft)
   (121.00 m / 118.00 m) x 17.30 m  x (6.30 / 6.50 m)

Armament:
      2 - 9.45" / 240 mm 40.0 cal guns - 332.90lbs / 151.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1898 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm 40.0 cal guns - 99.87lbs / 45.30kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1898 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      16 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 44.0 cal guns - 3.00lbs / 1.36kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1898 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 1,513 lbs / 686 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m torpedoes - 0.438 t each, 0.876 t total
   submerged side tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      8 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m torpedoes - 0.438 t each, 3.506 t total
   below water reloads

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.91" / 150 mm   290.35 ft / 88.50 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm     96.75 ft / 29.49 m   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
   Upper:   4.72" / 120 mm   290.35 ft / 88.50 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 115 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8.27" / 210 mm   5.91" / 150 mm      8.27" / 210 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm         -         1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.57" / 40 mm
   Forecastle: 0.98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.57" / 40 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.27" / 210 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 12,969 ihp / 9,675 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 647 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   379 - 494

Cost:
   £0.618 million / $2.472 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 282 tons, 4.1 %
      - Guns: 276 tons, 4.0 %
      - Weapons: 6 tons, 0.1 %
   Armour: 2,104 tons, 30.3 %
      - Belts: 1,311 tons, 18.9 %
      - Armament: 293 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 435 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 65 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,092 tons, 30.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,863 tons, 26.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 602 tons, 8.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5,854 lbs / 2,656 Kg = 13.9 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.535 / 0.540
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.82 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Forward deck:   20.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Aft deck:   55.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   10.00 %,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m,  13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 112.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 99.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,121 Square feet or 1,405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 435 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.62
      - Overall: 1.01
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Darman]

It's really far too early to think about 15cm guns on torpedo boat destroyers, either Hotchkiss 9 or 12 pounders (65 or 76mm) are much more realistic.  Historically Austrian protected cruisers from the 1890s (the Zenta class) carried a 12cm main battery (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Zenta).  The A-H navy had 2 ACs at this time, including one that was almost involved in the shooting part of the Spanish-American War by arriving off Santiago de Cuba the day the Spanish fleet sortied to their doom.  Those two cruisers can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Kaiserin_und_K%C3%B6nigin_Maria_Theresia and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS_Kaiser_Karl_VI

Thanks KWorld, I was just trying to limit the number of Naval Guns that Austria knows how to make.  I don't know what limits there are.  I'll post Austrian Naval Guns after a little more research so people know what guns to work with. 

I like the Kaiser Karl VI-class KWorld.  I think I'll use it as the modern Armored Cruiser of the Austrian Fleet. 

[Jefgte]

...Destroyer: 2 150mm primary or more lighter guns.  450mm torpedoes.  good sprint speed.  ~1,000nm range
Torpedo Boat: few 65mm guns, 450mm torpedoes, best sprint speed possible, ~500nm range

France built at this period "Aviso Torpilleurs"

Cassini & Dunois class

With nearly 1000t -2730nm range@10kts - 21-22kts - they could be classed as colonial TB

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5858.45.html

Jef  ;)

[Darman]

...Destroyer: 2 150mm primary or more lighter guns.  450mm torpedoes.  good sprint speed.  ~1,000nm range
Torpedo Boat: few 65mm guns, 450mm torpedoes, best sprint speed possible, ~500nm range

France built at this period "Aviso Torpilleurs"

Cassini & Dunois class

With nearly 1000t -2730nm range@10kts - 21-22kts - they could be classed as colonial TB

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5858.45.html

Jef  ;)

I'd have to build them as small cruisers and not according to TB/DD rules, right? 

[Tanthalas]

More or less like the Italian Torpedo Cruisers.

...Destroyer: 2 150mm primary or more lighter guns.  450mm torpedoes.  good sprint speed.  ~1,000nm range
Torpedo Boat: few 65mm guns, 450mm torpedoes, best sprint speed possible, ~500nm range

France built at this period "Aviso Torpilleurs"

Cassini & Dunois class

With nearly 1000t -2730nm range@10kts - 21-22kts - they could be classed as colonial TB

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,5858.45.html

Jef  ;)

I'd have to build them as small cruisers and not according to TB/DD rules, right?

[Darman]

More or less like the Italian Torpedo Cruisers.

Good.  I can do that easy enough.  The Austrians don't really have all that much of a need for colonial protection but I've just discovered that the Ottomans do.  The Austrians could still use light, fast combatants though

[Darman]

Any want to design a protected cruiser or destroyers?