France ships

[Jefgte]

225t-TB, France 225t-TB laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   225 t light; 231 t standard; 247 t normal; 260 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (140.00 ft / 140.00 ft) x 14.75 ft x (10.62 / 10.97 ft)
   (42.67 m / 42.67 m) x 4.50 m  x (3.24 / 3.34 m)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.20lbs / 1.45kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 - 0.32" / 8.0 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 104 ihp / 3 808 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 75nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   30 - 40

Cost:
   £0.030 million / $0.121 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 3.1 %
      - Guns: 3 tons, 1.2 %
      - Weapons: 5 tons, 1.9 %
   Machinery: 154 tons, 62.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 60 tons, 24.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 23 tons, 9.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43 lbs / 19 Kg = 13.4 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.395 / 0.402
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 71 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.32 ft / 3.45 m,  8.85 ft / 2.70 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.85 ft / 2.70 m,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m,  6.90 ft / 2.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.90 ft / 2.10 m,  6.22 ft / 1.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.04 ft / 2.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 203.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 40.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 267 Square feet or 118 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 15 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 82 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 6.15
      - Overall: 0.64
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room

Trial Speed:30kts
Bonus: 6

950nm@10kts

[KWorld]

Final 140ft TB design

225t-TB, France 225t-TB laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   225 t light; 231 t standard; 247 t normal; 260 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (140.00 ft / 140.00 ft) x 14.75 ft x (10.62 / 10.97 ft)
   (42.67 m / 42.67 m) x 4.50 m  x (3.24 / 3.34 m)

      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes

The one question I have about this design is whether you have enough beam to mount side-rotating tubes.  With only 4.5m of beam, if the tubes are mounted .5m in from the beam on their side, with the pivot point under the mid-point of the torpedo, and assuming that there's .25m of launching equipment behind the props of the torp, you need a clearance of (.5m + 2.46m + .25m = ) 3.21m across the width of the ship.  You'll PROBABLY clear the fish on the opposite side of the torpedo boat, but the end of the rotated tube will be basically touching the tube on the unengaged side.

[Jefgte]

TT disposition are similar to La Rioja class
Rotating tube with about 15 to 20°
The drawing, side & top, for 1/87 scratch, start today...

http://www.navalism.org/index.php/topic,4619.0.html

Jef  ;)

[KWorld]

Hmmmm.  If that's all the traverse you have, why not save the weight and go with fixed tubes?  From a quick look, looks like you'll save about 2 tons by going to fixed tubes.

[Jefgte]

...you'll save about 2 tons by going to fixed tubes.

& add 2t of minen...

Top drawing "ll decide. That depend the stacks positions & the rotation angle.

[KWorld]

...you'll save about 2 tons by going to fixed tubes.

& add 2t of minen...

Top drawing "ll decide. That depend the stacks positions & the rotation angle.

Probably not worth it for mines, but the additional weight could be put into replacing the fore and aft 3-pounders with something with a bit more authority against other TBs.

[Jefgte]

...but the additional weight could be put into replacing the fore and aft 3-pounders with something with a bit more authority against other TBs.

Yes but stability (1.10) decrease.

[Delta Force]

Why are your torpedo boats so short? Are you going for ease of construction and quantity over performance? IRN ships have higher performance, but their length has been limiting construction.

[Jefgte]

The lenght of 140ft is corresponding to 49cm lenght @ 1/87 scale.
50cm is the max lenght allow to instal a small harbor on a HO scale train.

Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

Are you telling me you intend to put them in a diorama with your Pships? if so I WANT PICTURES... that is all

The lenght of 140ft is corresponding to 49cm lenght @ 1/87 scale.
50cm is the max lenght allow to instal a small harbor on a HO scale train.

Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

Not exactly with the Panzerschiff but with the train @ HO scale

Imagine the 225t TB in the harbor...

http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/erh_detail.asp?mn=15&ca=39&sc=HO&stock=NO-80140

Jef

[Jefgte]

From KW

...If that's all the traverse you have, why not save the weight and go with fixed tubes?...

The first drawing give a good rotation on the side; about 160° with no launching possibilities on the opposite side.
But I think that the tube, 60cm high on the deck, could be ripped out in heavy sea. so, fixed tubes are retained in the drawing.
Heavier guns could be installed too.  :)

Jef

[Jefgte]

225t-TB, France 225t-TB laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Displacement:
   225 t light; 232 t standard; 248 t normal; 261 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (140.00 ft / 140.00 ft) x 14.75 ft x (10.58 / 10.93 ft)
   (42.67 m / 42.67 m) x 4.50 m  x (3.22 / 3.33 m)

Armament:
      2 - 2.56" / 65.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 8.46lbs / 3.84kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 - 0.32" / 8.0 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 23 lbs / 11 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes
      2nd Torpedoes
      2 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 16.15 ft / 4.92 m torpedoes - 0.591 t each, 1.182 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 126 ihp / 3 824 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 75nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 29 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   30 - 40

Cost:
   £0.031 million / $0.123 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 8 tons, 3.2 %
      - Guns: 5 tons, 2.0 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 154 tons, 62.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 60 tons, 24.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 23 tons, 9.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 3 tons, 1.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 3 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     43 lbs / 20 Kg = 5.1 x 2.6 " / 65 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 0.4 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 10.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.398 / 0.405
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.49 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 11.83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 72 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  11.17 ft / 3.40 m,  8.85 ft / 2.70 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.85 ft / 2.70 m,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m
      - Aft deck:   25.00 %,  7.55 ft / 2.30 m,  6.90 ft / 2.10 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  6.90 ft / 2.10 m,  6.22 ft / 1.90 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.02 ft / 2.45 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 205.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 57.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 1 270 Square feet or 118 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 15 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 17 lbs/sq ft or 84 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 6.17
      - Overall: 0.64
   Extremely poor machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

Trial Speed:30kts
Bonus: 6

950nm@10kts

[eltf177]

225t-TB, France 225t-TB laid down 1901 (Engine 1900)

Armament:
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.19lbs / 1.45kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      1 raised mount - superfiring
      2 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 3.20lbs / 1.45kg shells, 220 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      2 - 0.32" / 8.0 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1901 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 13 lbs / 6 kg

I thought this was a typo...

[Jefgte]

4x47mm are obsolete
2x65+2x47 are valid

Jef