France ships

[Jefgte]

This class of 2nd class BB is made to work with the TB4 class Torpedo Boat, operations only in the straits and narrow seas.

CBB2, France EX Nova Francia BB1 laid down 1902

Displacement:
   10 150 t light; 10 577 t standard; 10 763 t normal; 10 912 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (393.00 ft / 392.00 ft) x 71.52 ft x (21.47 / 21.71 ft)
   (119.79 m / 119.48 m) x 21.80 m  x (6.54 / 6.62 m)

Armament:
      2 - 10.77" / 274 mm 40.0 cal guns - 598.64lbs / 271.54kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1902 Model
     1 x Twin mount on sides, forward deck centre
      2 - 10.77" / 274 mm 40.0 cal guns - 598.64lbs / 271.54kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mount, 1902 Model
     1 x Twin mount on sides, aft deck centre
      8 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.91lbs / 38.06kg shells, 180 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm 36.5 cal guns - 12.13lbs / 5.50kg shells, 300 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     6 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 4 000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3 139 lbs / 1 424 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   308.40 ft / 94.00 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   5.50" / 140 mm     66.12 ft / 20.15 m   7.86 ft / 2.40 m
     17.48 ft / 5.33 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   5.50" / 140 mm   308.40 ft / 94.00 m   6.55 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 121 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.6" / 270 mm   3.95" / 100 mm      10.6" / 270 mm
   2nd:   10.6" / 270 mm   3.95" / 100 mm      10.6" / 270 mm
   3rd:   1.77" / 45 mm         -         1.77" / 45 mm
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.97" / 50 mm
   Forecastle: 0.97" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.97" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.05" / 230 mm, Aft 7.10" / 180 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 22 000 ihp / 16 412 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 1 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 335 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   527 - 686

Cost:
   £1.056 million / $4.223 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 516 tons, 4.8 %
      - Guns: 516 tons, 4.8 %
   Armour: 3 282 tons, 30.5 %
      - Belts: 1 958 tons, 18.2 %
      - Armament: 461 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 694 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Towers: 170 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 3 333 tons, 31.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 965 tons, 27.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 614 tons, 5.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 54 tons, 0.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 54 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 265 lbs / 3 295 Kg = 11.6 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 5.1 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.626 / 0.627
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.48 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.80 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  20.34 ft / 6.20 m,  20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m,  12.47 ft / 3.80 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.65 ft / 4.16 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 120.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 94.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 21 007 Square feet or 1 952 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 88 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 113 lbs/sq ft or 551 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.76
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

[Tanthalas]

Truth told I kinda like it honestly.  Italia cant afford to build second class units but if I could they would proly look quite a bit like that.

[The Rock Doctor]

A smaller version of that kind of thing might be interesting to park on the lower Congo...

[snip]

The only thing that stands out to me with a rather sleepy overview is the range. 1000nm @10knts, I have to wonder how she ever hits 21knts and can still be anywhere to do work.

[KWorld]

Id agree with snip, while everything else looks OK, the range seems excessively short, making the ships extremely limited.

The main gun layout is also an area to question: why have the 274mms en echelon instead of on the hull ends?

[Jefgte]

...why have the 274mms en echelon instead of on the hull ends?

To have the possibility of firing 4 guns fore or 4 guns aft.

This is not a serious project.

Jef

[Jefgte]

Testing big fast cruisers for 1902...

AC5-1, France Fleet Cruiser laid down 1902

Displacement:
   12 500 t light; 13 027 t standard; 14 166 t normal; 15 077 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (515.00 ft / 510.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (23.83 / 25.09 ft)
   (156.97 m / 155.45 m) x 20.73 m  x (7.26 / 7.65 m)

Armament:
      6 - 7.65" / 194 mm 45.0 cal guns - 225.75lbs / 102.40kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
      12 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.91lbs / 38.06kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.13lbs / 14.12kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 2 611 lbs / 1 184 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.70 ft / 5.39 m torpedoes - 0.668 t each, 2.671 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   475.80 ft / 145.02 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     30.42 ft / 9.27 m   7.86 ft / 2.40 m
     3.78 ft / 1.15 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   475.80 ft / 145.02 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 144 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   1.95" / 50 mm      5.90" / 150 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.95" / 24 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.80" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 0.99" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.99" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 000 ihp / 28 348 Kw = 24.01 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 050 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   649 - 844

Cost:
   £1.423 million / $5.690 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 499 tons, 3.5 %
      - Guns: 495 tons, 3.5 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 542 tons, 17.9 %
      - Belts: 1 298 tons, 9.2 %
      - Armament: 367 tons, 2.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 752 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 124 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5 701 tons, 40.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 601 tons, 25.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 666 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 158 tons, 1.1 %
      - Hull below water: 12 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 26 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 701 lbs / 3 493 Kg = 34.4 x 7.7 " / 194 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.46
   Metacentric height 5.4 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 12.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.33

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22.58 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 52 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  17.40 ft / 5.30 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.40 ft / 5.30 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.83 ft / 5.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 123.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 25 364 Square feet or 2 356 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 103 lbs/sq ft or 504 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.36
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
-------------
AC5-2, France Fleet Cruiser laid down 1902

Displacement:
   13 300 t light; 13 886 t standard; 15 083 t normal; 16 041 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (549.00 ft / 544.00 ft) x 68.00 ft x (23.79 / 25.02 ft)
   (167.34 m / 165.81 m) x 20.73 m  x (7.25 / 7.63 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.77" / 274 mm 45.0 cal guns - 629.95lbs / 285.74kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1902 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.50" / 140 mm 45.0 cal guns - 83.91lbs / 38.06kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 3.95" / 100 mm 45.0 cal guns - 31.13lbs / 14.12kg shells, 300 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1902 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      4 - 0.30" / 7.6 mm 76.0 cal guns - 0.02lbs / 0.01kg shells, 3 000 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1902 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 3 440 lbs / 1 560 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 17.7" / 450 mm, 17.70 ft / 5.39 m torpedoes - 0.668 t each, 2.671 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   495.00 ft / 150.88 m   9.85 ft / 3.00 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     30.42 ft / 9.27 m   7.86 ft / 2.40 m
     18.58 ft / 5.66 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   495.00 ft / 150.88 m   6.56 ft / 2.00 m
     Main Belt covers 140 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.90" / 150 mm   1.95" / 50 mm      5.90" / 150 mm
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.95" / 24 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.80" / 20 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.40" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.77" / 45 mm
   Forecastle: 0.99" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 0.99" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.90" / 150 mm, Aft 3.95" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 38 000 ihp / 28 348 Kw = 23.96 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2 155 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   679 - 884

Cost:
   £1.543 million / $6.172 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 604 tons, 4.0 %
      - Guns: 601 tons, 4.0 %
      - Weapons: 3 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2 625 tons, 17.4 %
      - Belts: 1 354 tons, 9.0 %
      - Armament: 340 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 802 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 130 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 5 701 tons, 37.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 170 tons, 27.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 783 tons, 11.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1.3 %
      - Hull below water: 8 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 72 tons
      - Above deck: 120 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 375 lbs / 3 799 Kg = 13.4 x 10.8 " / 274 mm shells or 2.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a ram bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.607
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.32 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1.00 ft / 0.30 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  18.37 ft / 5.60 m,  17.40 ft / 5.30 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  17.40 ft / 5.30 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m,  16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      16.83 ft / 5.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 139.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 125.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 27 055 Square feet or 2 514 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 111 lbs/sq ft or 542 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.26
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

1902, hmmm havnt got that far yet... although proly just more or less repeats of my 1900 laydowns.

[The Rock Doctor]

A lot of bucks for the bang, Jef.  Don't know that I'd bother...

[snip]

Thing is going to shake like nothing else with those VTEs. Personaly, I would go to 4 larger guns over the 6x194mm. Bit more of a offensive punch as this thing will have to fight 9.2" or 10" armed ACs

[Jefgte]

...24kts cost too much in 1902...

Jef

[KWorld]

You probably won't have 1902 engines in 1902, so I don't know if these will work out.

[Jefgte]

You probably won't have 1902 engines in 1902, so I don't know if these will work out.

No turbines in 1902 but "complex reciprocating steam engines".

[KWorld]

You probably won't have 1902 engines in 1902, so I don't know if these will work out.

No turbines in 1902 but "complex reciprocating steam engines".

Sure, but not SS3b3 1902 complex reciprocating engines: until you develop the 1902 VTE tech, you'll have 1900 engines, when you do, you'll have 1905 engines.

[snip]

Good catch, missed it myself.