Colonial Navy

[KWorld]

The corvette looks like it's trying to simulate one of the HSF light cruisers, by the armament, but it's the size of the later Magdeburg class.  Also, it seems very deep for it's size, you might try reducing the draft a bit, see what happens.

[Delta Force]

The corvette looks like it's trying to simulate one of the HSF light cruisers, by the armament, but it's the size of the later Magdeburg class.  Also, it seems very deep for it's size, you might try reducing the draft a bit, see what happens.

Well, keep in mind that this corvette is also going a little bit faster and has protected cruiser armor as well. Getting those extra few knots in speed increase the tonnage of the design by a good bit (with a top speed of 19 knots, around that of historical German cruisers, it has a composite strength of 1.96). I ended up with the fairly deep draught because it turned out to be the only way I could produce a lighter ship. Lengthening the ship, increasing its beam, and increasing its block coefficent produced heavier designs than what I started with (the previous 1897 design).

There will be a smaller class of cruisers in my navy (the sloops) that will have a lower speed and size for colonial use and convoy escort.

[KWorld]

Since we have no colonies at game start, I'm not certain you'll need ships for "colonial service and convoy escort" duties.

HSF light cruiser speeds vary on the source and when the speed was taken: according to http://www.german-navy.de/hochseeflotte/ships/smallcruiser/gazelle/tech.html, SMS Gazelle had a speed of 20.2 knots, on a maximum displacement of under 3000 tons.  SMS Magdeburg had a speed of 27.6 knots, with both deck and belt armor.

[Jefgte]

I note again, DF that speed cost very much in weight...


Jef  ;)

[Delta Force]

I note again, DF that speed cost very much in weight...


Jef  ;)

I am probably going to have the majority of my cruisers drop down to 21 knots, with advances in machinery (and thus more free weight) going towards better armor and armament. I will have a few scouting cruisers for the fleet built specifically for high speeds.

Having now sat down and designed ships for the World War I era, I also must say that I can see why many nations adopted such a conservative approach to ship design such as forgoing battlecruisers for modern armored cruiser type designs. Even with turbines speed is quite expensive. The only issue is that battlecruisers have such an advantage over armored cruisers in armament and dreadnoughts in speed that once someone decides to make one you have to respond with similar ships. That said, I still think that battlecruisers are a very good weapons system for wealthier countries. It is just that for the cost of a battlecruiser you can get a dreadnought and most of an armored cruiser. That and their heyday is only between around 1910 and 1920. Before that they are far too expensive for their tonnage, and afterwards the fast battleship offers a far more balanced design.

[Delta Force]

I have three torpedo boat designs now. The 500 ton torpedo boat and torpedo boat killer use the same hull, the difference is that the TBK has a 115 mm gun instead of two 90 mm guns to provide more fire support.

Torpedo Boat Model 1895, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1895

Displacement:
   397 t light; 410 t standard; 500 t normal; 572 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (230.31 ft / 230.31 ft) x 19.19 ft x (9.84 / 10.77 ft)
   (70.20 m / 70.20 m) x 5.85 m  x (3.00 / 3.28 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,762 ihp / 4,299 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 360nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 162 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   52 - 68

Cost:
   £0.057 million / $0.227 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
      - Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 291 tons, 58.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 94 tons, 18.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 20.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     96 lbs / 43 Kg = 4.3 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.402 / 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  9.68 ft / 2.95 m,  8.04 ft / 2.45 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.04 ft / 2.45 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.22 ft / 2.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,724 Square feet or 253 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 25 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 89 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.95
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

Adjusted trial speed of 27.5 knots.

Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.

Torpedo Boat Killer Model 1895, Colonial Navy TBK laid down 1895

Displacement:
   397 t light; 410 t standard; 500 t normal; 572 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (230.31 ft / 230.31 ft) x 19.19 ft x (9.84 / 10.77 ft)
   (70.20 m / 70.20 m) x 5.85 m  x (3.00 / 3.28 m)

Armament:
      1 - 4.53" / 115 mm 40.0 cal gun - 44.09lbs / 20.00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading gun in deck mount, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
      3 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 400 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 47 lbs / 21 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,762 ihp / 4,299 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 360nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 162 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   52 - 68

Cost:
   £0.057 million / $0.227 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 1.4 %
      - Guns: 7 tons, 1.4 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 291 tons, 58.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 93 tons, 18.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 102 tons, 20.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     95 lbs / 43 Kg = 2.0 x 4.5 " / 115 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.66
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 8.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.05

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.402 / 0.420
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.18 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  9.68 ft / 2.95 m,  8.04 ft / 2.45 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.04 ft / 2.45 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m,  6.40 ft / 1.95 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.22 ft / 2.20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,724 Square feet or 253 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 25 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.94
      - Overall: 0.53
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

Adjusted trial speed of 27.5 knots.

Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.

Torpedo Boat Model 1895 Light, Colonial Navy TBL laid down 1895

Displacement:
   210 t light; 215 t standard; 250 t normal; 278 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (209.97 ft / 209.97 ft) x 17.55 ft x (6.25 / 6.69 ft)
   (64.00 m / 64.00 m) x 5.35 m  x (1.91 / 2.04 m)

Armament:
      3 - 1.06" / 27.0 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 500 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1895 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 2 lbs / 1 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.30" / 8 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,809 ihp / 2,841 Kw = 24.00 kts
   Range 210nm at 24.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 63 tons (100% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   30 - 40

Cost:
   £0.029 million / $0.115 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1 tons, 0.2 %
      - Guns: 1 tons, 0.2 %
   Armour: 3 tons, 1.4 %
      - Armament: 3 tons, 1.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 152 tons, 60.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 53 tons, 21.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 40 tons, 16.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 1 tons, 0.3 %
      - On freeboard deck: 1 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     51 lbs / 23 Kg = 84.5 x 1.1 " / 27 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.73
   Metacentric height 0.9 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 7.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.00
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.75

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.380 / 0.395
   Length to Beam Ratio: 11.96 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 58 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  4.92 ft / 1.50 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  4.92 ft / 1.50 m,  4.92 ft / 1.50 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  4.92 ft / 1.50 m,  4.92 ft / 1.50 m
      - Average freeboard:      5.74 ft / 1.75 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 196.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,239 Square feet or 208 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 19 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 14 lbs/sq ft or 71 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.50
      - Longitudinal: 0.55
      - Overall: 0.50
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather

Adjusted trial speed of 30 knots.

Mount gun armor is 7.5 mm, program rounds it to 8 mm.

Miscellaneous weight:
2 400 mm / 5.6 meter single shot deck mounted fixed torpedo tubes.

[KWorld]

With your two larger boats, I'd seriously look at adding some more ammunition.  Guns of that size will be able to fire at least 12-15 rounds per minute, so with your current loadouts, their deck lockers will run dry in 5.5 minutes and there's nothing to refill them.

[Delta Force]

Related to that, I was wondering if it would be possible for the 90 mm guns to switch positions with the autocannons to be side mounted en echelon style. Is the boat too small and fragile to deal with the blast effects of cannons firing over the length of the boat?

[KWorld]

I wouldn't think that fragility will be a big problem, we're talking about pretty small guns here and the recoil system HAS been invented.  The problem I foresee is that where are you going to put them that they'd have that sort of an arc of fire, where they're not in the way of your torpedoes, and aren't prone to getting their crews washed over the side?  Take a look here http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_4-50_mk9_pics.htm for how some mounts were installed on four-pipers and then moved to better locations: your ship is a LOT smaller than a four-piper...... I'd suggest that you don't have the beam to cross-deck, if for no other reason than that you  can't crew the gun with the muzzle pointed the wrong way.

[Delta Force]

Dropped 25 miles from the range of the 500 ton boats and gave each main gun 250 rounds and each autocannon 1000 rounds. I decided not to change armament placement since it is better to have all weapons work well at their respective areas, especially since the target should be in front of the boat for only a few minutes at most.

[KWorld]

Hard to say how long the target will be in front of the bow, a lot depends on initial range, target's relative course, and their speed.  Keep in mind that your fish would realistically have a range of no more than 1000m or so, early small torpedoes were very short legged and while the currently posted torpedo rules give them a lot longer reach, Carth has said he's going to revise them.

[Delta Force]

Is this design reasonable for 1900, or is it closer to a 1950s Soviet torpedo boat?

Torpedo Boat Model 1900, Colonial Navy TB laid down 1900

Displacement:
   403 t light; 421 t standard; 500 t normal; 563 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (236.22 ft / 236.22 ft) x 19.69 ft x (9.84 / 10.62 ft)
   (72.00 m / 72.00 m) x 6.00 m  x (3.00 / 3.24 m)

Armament:
      2 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     1 x Single mount on centreline, forward deck forward
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm 40.0 cal guns - 1.10lbs / 0.50kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1900 Model
     2 x Single mounts on sides amidships
      Weight of broadside 46 lbs / 21 kg

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -
   2nd:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Conning towers: Forward 0.98" / 25 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,132 ihp / 4,574 Kw = 24.50 kts
   Range 343nm at 24.50 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 142 tons (90% coal)
     Caution: Delicate, lightweight machinery

Complement:
   52 - 68

Cost:
   £0.057 million / $0.226 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 7 tons, 1.3 %
      - Guns: 7 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 5 tons, 1.0 %
      - Armament: 4 tons, 0.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 1 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 289 tons, 57.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 97 tons, 19.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 96 tons, 19.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 6 tons, 1.2 %
      - On freeboard deck: 6 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     92 lbs / 42 Kg = 4.2 x 3.5 " / 90 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.38
   Metacentric height 0.8 ft / 0.2 m
   Roll period: 9.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.14
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.07

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.382 / 0.399
   Length to Beam Ratio: 12.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.37 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 66
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -15.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   25.00 %,  9.84 ft / 3.00 m,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  8.20 ft / 2.50 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m,  6.56 ft / 2.00 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.38 ft / 2.25 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 191.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 63.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 2,828 Square feet or 263 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 26 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 18 lbs/sq ft or 88 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.51
      - Longitudinal: 0.99
      - Overall: 0.55
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Adjusted trial speed of 28 knots.

Miscellaneous weight:
8 450 mm / 6.3 meter single shot deck mounted side rotating torpedo tubes. One 2 x 2 torpedo rack port and starboard.

[KWorld]

Guns seem fine, though you might want to change them to quick firing since a 90mm gun doesn't need 2-piece rounds.  Speed's kind of low for the role, especially when it starts getting rough.  The torpedoes themselves seem too long for the period.

[KWorld]

Also, running SS and looking in the distribution of weights, your torpedo weight is only half of what it should be if they're side rotating tubes (allowing you to fire at multiple angles), those would weigh 12 tons.  If, instead, you're using fixed tubes, the weight is 7 tons.

[Delta Force]

Also, running SS and looking in the distribution of weights, your torpedo weight is only a third of what it should be if they're side rotating tubes (allowing you to fire at multiple angles), those would weigh 18 tons.  If, instead, you're using fixed tubes, the weight is 11 tons.  Not sure where 6 tons comes from, even the weight that appears on the Weapons page (and doesn't include everything) shows me 8.881 tons.

Do I just have to extrapolate the changes in weights on the summary page? I have been using the weights listed under the weapons page and it makes a lot of sense now as to why those weights never changed when I changed tube type.