AIS Fleet

[Desertfox]

Fair enough will do in revision. Note I used a 5' belt for that.


A more conventional fleet cruiser.

Ariel, AIS Cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   3,239 t light; 3,392 t standard; 3,700 t normal; 3,946 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (403.53 ft / 400.00 ft) x 50.00 ft x (14.00 / 14.67 ft)
   (122.99 m / 121.92 m) x 15.24 m  x (4.27 / 4.47 m)

Armament:
      4 - 7.00" / 178 mm 45.0 cal guns - 172.96lbs / 78.45kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     3 x Single mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck aft
      4 - 5.00" / 127 mm 45.0 cal guns - 63.03lbs / 28.59kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm 45.0 cal guns - 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 150 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 948 lbs / 430 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 20.0" / 508 mm, 30.00 ft / 9.14 m torpedoes - 1.550 t each, 6.201 t total
   In 2 sets of deck mounted side rotating tubes
      Mines
      50 - 500.00 lbs / 226.80 kg mines - 11.161 t total
   in Above water - Stern racks/rails

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   340.00 ft / 103.63 m   5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 131 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      1.00" / 25 mm
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm   0.50" / 13 mm      0.50" / 13 mm
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 1.00" / 25 mm, Aft 1.00" / 25 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 4 shafts, 8,461 ihp / 6,312 Kw = 20.00 kts
   Range 4,400nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 554 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   236 - 308

Cost:
   £0.373 million / $1.491 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 277 tons, 7.5 %
      - Guns: 251 tons, 6.8 %
      - Weapons: 26 tons, 0.7 %
   Armour: 341 tons, 9.2 %
      - Belts: 68 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armament: 67 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 196 tons, 5.3 %
      - Conning Towers: 10 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 1,214 tons, 32.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,357 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 461 tons, 12.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 50 tons, 1.4 %
      - Hull above water: 50 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,138 lbs / 1,423 Kg = 18.3 x 7.0 " / 178 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.47
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 11.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.68

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.463 / 0.471
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.00 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 42 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 42
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  20.00 ft / 6.10 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forward deck:   50.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Aft deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Average freeboard:      13.90 ft / 4.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 130.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 135.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 12,891 Square feet or 1,198 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 79 lbs/sq ft or 384 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[KWorld]

50cm, 9m torpedoes?  Seems that's a bit long for the size and period....

Protection is again a bit light.  Main battery's OK, making this one of the smallest medium cruisers we've seen.  I'd be tempted to get a bit bigger to fit more 5" guns, I'm doubtful 2 per side is enough should the torpedo boats come out to play.

[Carthaginian]

50cm, 9m torpedoes?  Seems that's a bit long for the size and period....

Protection is again a bit light.  Main battery's OK, making this one of the smallest medium cruisers we've seen.  I'd be tempted to get a bit bigger to fit more 5" guns, I'm doubtful 2 per side is enough should the torpedo boats come out to play.

The torpedoes are just there for deck space- they simulate some 40"x 30' launches.
Foxy actually got proactive here- trying to see if he had enough deck space for his launches.
For this, Foxy, I salute you!


ADVICE- they will need to be MUCH wider- at least 8 FEET or so!

[KWorld]

I don't think so: at the top, he says "A more conventional fleet cruiser", he's raised the speed (though it's still not fast) and it doesn't have any mortars.  But I could be wrong, too.

[Walter]

There is a SPECIFIC reason for this- the ASW mortar doesn't subtract strength or weight.

Actually, if you have messed around with SS3 a lot like I have, you'll know that it does work...
... kinda...
... kinda in a very weird way...

Example of a carrier of mine, using the ASW to sim additional bombs for the planes. When I am done, it will give me this:

RE, Japan Carrier laid down 1936

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 36,197 t standard; 39,843 t normal; 42,759 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (845.52 ft / 810.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (32.00 / 33.75 ft)
   (257.71 m / 246.89 m) x 30.48 m  x (9.75 / 10.29 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 40.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 450 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 50.0 cal guns - 34.00lbs / 15.42kg shells, 750 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 2.01lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     3 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
     1 x 2 row octuple mount on sides, forward deck centre
      1 double raised mount
      51 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     17 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 1,081 lbs / 490 kg
      Main DC/AS Mortars
      60 - 1,763.70 lbs / 800.00 kg Depth Charges + 240 reloads - 236.210 t total
   in Stern depth charge racks
      2nd DC/AS Mortars
      60 - 1,102.31 lbs / 500.00 kg Depth Charges + 480 reloads - 265.736 t total
   in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      2.75" / 70 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 90.00 ft / 27.43 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.25" / 83 mm
   Forecastle: 3.25" / 83 mm  Quarter deck: 3.25" / 83 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.75" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 187,264 shp / 139,699 Kw = 33.40 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,562 tons

Complement:
   1,409 - 1,833

Cost:
   £10.932 million / $43.727 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 924 tons, 2.3 %
      - Guns: 296 tons, 0.7 %
      - Weapons: 627 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 7,065 tons, 17.7 %
      - Belts: 1,535 tons, 3.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,628 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 305 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,528 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 5,254 tons, 13.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,109 tons, 22.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,843 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13,275 tons, 33.3 %
      - Hull below water: 1,200 tons
      - Hull above water: 5,200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 5,200 tons
      - Above deck: 1,675 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     62,409 lbs / 28,308 Kg = 998.5 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 10.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.07
   Metacentric height 5.7 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 17.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.538 / 0.547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 32.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  44.00 ft / 13.41 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.26 ft / 7.39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 58,179 Square feet or 5,405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.11
      - Overall: 1.00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform


No problem. Looks to work out fine...
... until you reload the sim because then you get this:

RE, Japan Carrier laid down 1936

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 36,197 t standard; 39,843 t normal; 42,759 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (845.52 ft / 810.00 ft) x 100.00 ft x (32.00 / 33.75 ft)
   (257.71 m / 246.89 m) x 30.48 m  x (9.75 / 10.29 m)

Armament:
      8 - 5.00" / 127 mm 40.0 cal guns - 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 450 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      16 - 4.13" / 105 mm 50.0 cal guns - 34.00lbs / 15.42kg shells, 750 per gun
     Dual purpose guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1936 Model
     4 x 2-gun mounts on sides, forward deck forward
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, aft deck aft
      32 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm 39.0 cal guns - 2.01lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1,000 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     3 x 2 row octuple mounts on sides, forward evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
     1 x 2 row octuple mount on sides, forward deck centre
      1 double raised mount
      51 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm 65.0 cal guns - 0.57lbs / 0.26kg shells, 1,500 per gun
     Anti-air guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     17 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      32 - 0.52" / 13.2 mm 70.0 cal guns - 0.09lbs / 0.04kg shells, 2,500 per gun
     Machine guns in deck mounts, 1936 Model
     2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, forward deck forward
     2 x 2 row octuple mounts on centreline, aft deck aft
      Weight of broadside 1,081 lbs / 490 kg
      Main DC/AS Mortars
      60 - 1,763.70 lbs / 800.00 kg Depth Charges + 240 reloads - 236.210 t total
   in Stern depth charge racks
      2nd DC/AS Mortars
      60 - 1,102.31 lbs / 500.00 kg Depth Charges + 480 reloads - 265.736 t total
   in Stern depth charge racks

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 95 % of normal length
     Main Belt inclined 10.00 degrees (positive = in)

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      2.75" / 70 mm   500.00 ft / 152.40 m   32.00 ft / 9.75 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 90.00 ft / 27.43 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      2.00" / 51 mm
   3rd:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   4th:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm   0.50" / 13 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.25" / 83 mm
   Forecastle: 3.25" / 83 mm  Quarter deck: 3.25" / 83 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 2.75" / 70 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 187,264 shp / 139,699 Kw = 33.40 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 6,562 tons

Complement:
   1,409 - 1,833

Cost:
   £10.932 million / $43.727 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 924 tons, 2.3 %
      - Guns: 296 tons, 0.7 %
      - Weapons: 627 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 7,065 tons, 17.7 %
      - Belts: 1,535 tons, 3.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,628 tons, 4.1 %
      - Armament: 305 tons, 0.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,528 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 69 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 5,254 tons, 13.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,482 tons, 21.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,843 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 13,275 tons, 33.3 %
      - Hull below water: 1,200 tons
      - Hull above water: 5,200 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 5,200 tons
      - Above deck: 1,675 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     59,084 lbs / 26,800 Kg = 945.3 x 5.0 " / 127 mm shells or 10.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.08
   Metacentric height 5.8 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 17.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.04
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     an extended bulbous bow and large transom stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.538 / 0.547
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.10 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 32.89 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 25.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 15.00 ft / 4.57 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  44.00 ft / 13.41 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Forward deck:   40.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m,  23.00 ft / 7.01 m
      - Average freeboard:      24.26 ft / 7.39 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 71.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 180.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 58,179 Square feet or 5,405 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 125 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 607 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 1.05
      - Overall: 0.94
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Excellent accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

... all of a sudden, the HS has dropped by 0.06 while initially it gave a HS of 1.00. Why does it do that? No idea, but I do know that the DC/AS Mortars option does this. When you remove the DC/AS stuff, nothing happens but when you save the design and reload it, HS is back at 1.00.

[Carthaginian]

Walter - that's why I want to use the guns tab.
It's not weird. ;)
It works in the way that we are used to. :D

[KWorld]

Interesting.  SS3.3 does the same thing with torpedoes as well: I added 6 reload torps to the little TB I posted yesterday, saved it, loaded something else, then loaded the TB up again, and the Composite Strength had dropped from 0.62 to 0.48.

So now I need to look into how to handle the reload fish for all of my submerged torpedo tubes.

[Carthaginian]

Interesting.  SS3.3 does the same thing with torpedoes as well: I added 6 reload torps to the little TB I posted yesterday, saved it, loaded something else, then loaded the TB up again, and the Composite Strength had dropped from 0.62 to 0.48.

So now I need to look into how to handle the reload fish for all of my submerged torpedo tubes.

By the rules as written.

[Desertfox]

Just forgot to check period torpedo sizes, will change to 18" and 20ft.

Its supposed to be a light cruiser but AIS will have the "problem" of not having a 6" gun, instead having 5" and 7" guns, so this ship ended up in the medium cruiser category. I'll additional anti-TB guns in the 2" range once I figure out exactly what I want.

[KWorld]

Interesting.  SS3.3 does the same thing with torpedoes as well: I added 6 reload torps to the little TB I posted yesterday, saved it, loaded something else, then loaded the TB up again, and the Composite Strength had dropped from 0.62 to 0.48.

So now I need to look into how to handle the reload fish for all of my submerged torpedo tubes.

By the rules as written.

We can certainly do that, and it will be fair to do so (since everyone will be doing it).  However, if we do, by what Walter and I've shown, we're double-weighing the torpedo tubes and the fish.

[Carthaginian]

Just count the tubes and alot weight for X reloads... Don add the submerged reloads.