Working Draft : Land and Air Combat

Started by Kaiser Kirk, September 29, 2020, 05:52:34 PM

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Kaiser Kirk

September 29, 2020, 05:52:34 PM
Folks,

I was hoping to drag out old wargames and adapt their rules, but the "Unit" and the Fortification % bonuses make that difficult.

Between Wargame structures, and lots of military history, I worked out a conceptual model in my head over the summer.
Which seems pretty reasonable, even if not playtested.

The San Diego conflict relied on that model and I think worked out pretty well.

Between Exporting my Fireline edits, and waiting for final maps to print, I had some downtime one evening, so I put my Land and Air concepts down in Word.

I will share that here as a 'Working Draft' so everyone has a general idea of where we are at.

I would like to add complexity and depth, and ultimately "Command Cards" ala Paths of Glory, so the player has some interaction with the battle.

I am still working to figure out the best way to integrate fortifications without making them overwhelming or underwhelming.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

#1
September 29, 2020, 05:57:38 PM
Land and Amphibious Military Combat

Prologue
The design goal for the non-naval aspects of this SIM is an abstracted, easy resolution.
This is expected to make it simpler and easier for actual and potential players to interact, and so raise participation, while also not overwhelming the moderator.
Implementing this for the Sino-Japanese War II encountered problems between the interaction of a greater Regional Abstract and the Singular Specific nature of a warship.
There was a conscious decision to move forward with the start of the SIM and worry about the combat elements late.
The Fortification Rules refer to % bonuses such features give per offensive unit.
Considering : Fortifications levels count as "Units" on defense, with hits randomly being allocated between fortification and Land unit "Hits". 
Coastal Forts only defend against Amphibious Assaults, but have gun batteries included.
The Land and Air Unit Rules envision generic units.
The Land Technology Rules provide Tech bonus.

At the end of the "6 month" battle cycle, all Land/Air/Deployment units in Supply are "Healed" of damage. Those not in supply (such as amphibious, or cut off undeveloped) are not healed.
Note : This means larger forces are more likely to stalemate.

Short Term :
This is not a finalized system, but one where the odds seem to line up right in comparison with classic wargames. So it works until I can flesh it out.
I have conceptualized a system where Land Units have 4 "Hits". 
I will acknowledge this is diverging from Snip's goal, but I feel the ability to suffer damage and cease battle is important.

Originally, I was going to use old wargame combat charts which use die 6s.  However the specification that the Fortification rules gave % bonuses frustrated that.
So I have devised a combat system on a 1-100 basis.
Each Game Turn is 6 Months.
Each Month, Each Land unit gets 5 "D20", - 1 "D20" for each "hit" taken.
Conceptually this represents 4 subunits and the artillery train. So a unit with 1 hit left has 1 subunit and the artillery, and so gets 2 D20.
They roll the D20, and add the Fortification Bonus.  This is cumulative with Combat in prior months, and with the damage inflicted by other units.
For every total "50" points, they inflict 1 "hit".

Combat Bonuses and Penalties.
Coastal Fortifications do 3 things :
1) inflict attrition damage on the foreign navy operating along the shore.
2) translate into point features relative to naval bases, major ports and minor port defenses.
3) Protect against Amphibious attacks at 3% per point.

Land Fortifications defend strategic points of the province, and control of the province can not be gained without overcoming them. Therefore they protect against both overland and amphibious attacks.

Amphibious : No Attacks first turn (landing), No 5th D20 (can't land/supply artillery).
The artillery bit was not in place at San Diego, but I think is appropriate given the current tech.

No more than 2 Amphibious land units "disembarking" per Month.
If offensive fails to capture a Port Symbol by end of 6 months, severe penalties result.

Defender present >1month : Scouted Terrain, breastworks  : +1 D20
Defender present >6months: Dug in : +2 D20
Defending units in a Region shall be assumed to be dispersed along borders in Homelands.
In Colonies, it depends if they are 'Garrisoning' in which case 1/province is needed,
or there are developed Provinces.
Defending units in adjacent provinces can join battle at rate of 1/month.
This includes island provinces "nearby", via civilian craft, but is subject to naval interdiction.


Example :
Land unit in Homeland 15 Fort (+45%) :
Counts as "Dug in" for +2 Dice.
Rolls it's 5 D20   : 5, 18, 16, 4, 2  for 45
Rolls it's +2 D20 :  7, 18 for 25
At this point, they have done 70, which would be 50pts for a 'Hit' and 20pts for the next month.

BUT this is in a fort.
Adds +45%(+3% per fort in homeland, +1%per fort in colonies): +45
For 115, or 2 'Hits' and 15points for next month.

Currently - forts do not take "hits".  I will need to game test if Forts should take hits like units, and so be eroded over time, while also protecting the unit from quick destruction.

Aircraft :
Conceptually, the current situation is Aircraft in Navalism are meant to be abstracted as Multi-roll units.
I guess an "Air unit" is ~150pilots for 150 fighters, 150 bombers, and 150 scouts, and fly whichever the day calls for. 

The Design expectation is that Aircraft will primarily fight for Air superiority (Fighters), and when one side has the upper hand, they will effect the ground battle.

Air units are Regional assets, but are more mobile, so can effect battles anywhere in that region, or close by provinces/sea regions, dependent on range from region.

I think I will handle it this way :
Air Units get 4 D20,
Air Units may fight throughout their Region or adjacent Regions.
There will be a weather based chance of flying effectively that month.
Weather from the SeaKrieg Charts for that area/time.

Basically, the trick is to mimic the fragility of aircraft and the high attrition rate, with their flexibility to move around, and how as their tech level increased, they became both tougher and more effective. Further, the older aircraft grew clearly out of date, but were still somewhat effective. The Finnish Buffalos, the Maltese Gladiators, the Swordfish, the Night Witches, etc.

Aircraft units are more fragile with only (the greater of 26 damage or their tech year) per HIT
Aircraft Units have only 3 "Hits" but only 2 "Hits" can engage at one time.
This represents the dispersement of aircraft across a region, and maintenance/availability issues, plus the ability to repair damage aircraft and return them to service. Even if both "Hits" are wiped out in month #1, enough pilots and aircraft can be scraped up to put up a fight in month#2
Each Month :
For Each "Hit" engaged, each Air Unit rolls 1D20 and adds their Tech year
½ the result is put into damage against opposing air units.
Each "26 or Tech Year" points inflicts a "Hit".
½ the result is put into 'air superiority'.

The two sides compare 'air superiority' and the extra points effect the ground battle.

Example
1914 Alpha rolls (2d20) : 7, 17 : 24+ (2x14) : 52
1910 Beta Rolls (2d20) : 8, 12  : 20 +(2x10) : 40

The Alpha does 26 Air Damage and 26 Air Superiority,
The Beta does 20 Air Damage and 20 Air Superiority.

The Alpha does 1 "Hit" To the Beta, and adds (26-20) 6 pts to the ground battle.


Future Evolutions :
Odds-wise it's not bad,

All this needs more play testing to get "right"

I want to work in ties to the Land Tech table.
Particularly in terms of the Amphibious tech allowing disembarkation of Artillery or more land units landing per Month.
I would like to work in some real terrain considerations
I am also considering if a >6month dug in land unit should also take 1 die LESS in damage.
The same consideration for fortifications, that they both increase offense and reduce damage.
Quite simply, while Forts tended to have a lot of guns, they also sheltered their occupants.
As a "Fancy" thing, I'd love to add a concept from "Paths of Glory" , where each player is given Command Cards. They can choose which ones to play, when.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

#2
September 29, 2020, 06:06:31 PM
Working Draft :
Coastal Defenses

Coastal Defenses are vexing.
They are points assigned on a regional basis which interact with very specific warships assigned a point target.
The abstract and the specific are difficult to reconcile.

I feel there needs to be a rough idea of what a Coast Defense point means, in order to evaluate things like naval raids.
How do we know if Scapa Flow has Torpedo Nets and defensive fields?  We look at what Walter's region has in Coastal Defenses.

The gun sizes are 'ranges'.
Once that gun is encountered, like a 305mm Mortar, higher levels provide more weapons.
I.e. doing an amphibious invasion against a 25pt fortified major naval bases will result in lots of very large mortars plunging down on any beachheads.
....don't try such a landing...

Appropriate support harbor craft are assumed.



      Coastline                 Naval Base                        Major Ports                     Minor Ports         
   Coastal DEF value         MG   Mortar   IG   TG   Garrison   Nets   Mines      MG   Mortar   IG   TG   Garrison   Nets   Mines      MG   IG   TG   Garrison   Nets   Mines
   1   Coast Watch                  Company                        Company                           
   2   Light fortifications               75mm   Company                     75mm   Company                           
   3                120mm   75mm   Company   yes                  75mm   battalion                           
   4            245mm   120mm   75mm   battalion   yes   yes            120mm   75mm   battalion   yes               75mm   Platoon      
   5         210mm   245mm   155mm   75mm   battalion   yes   yes      155mm      120mm   75mm   battalion   yes                75mm   Platoon      
   6         210mm   245mm   155mm   75mm   battalion   yes   yes      155mm      120mm   75mm   battalion   yes                75mm   Platoon      
   7         235mm   305mm   155mm   75mm   battalion   yes   yes      155mm       120mm   75mm   battalion   yes   yes          120mm   75mm   Platoon      
   8         235mm   305mm   155mm   100mm   battalion   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   battalion   yes   yes         120mm   75mm   Platoon      
   9         255mm   305mm   155mm   100mm   battalion   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   battalion   yes   yes         120mm   75mm   Platoon      
   10   Medium fortifications      255mm   305mm   210mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes          120mm   75mm   Company      
   11         300mm   305mm   210mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes          120mm   75mm   Company      
   12         300mm   305mm   210mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes          120mm   75mm   Company      
   13         330mm   305mm   210mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company      
   14         330mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company      
   15         345mm   305mm   250mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   245mm   155mm   100mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company      
   16         345mm   305mm   250mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company   yes   
   17         360mm   305mm   250mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company   yes   
   18         360mm   305mm   250mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      155mm   120mm   75mm   Company   yes   
   19         380mm   305mm   250mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Regiment   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   20   Atlantic Wall      380mm   305mm   250mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   21         405mm   305mm   300mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   22         405mm   305mm   300mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      255mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   23         Max   305mm   300mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      300mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   24         Max   305mm   300mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      300mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
   25         Max   305mm   300mm   155mm   Brigade   yes   yes      300mm   305mm   210mm   120mm   Brigade   yes   yes      210mm   155mm   120mm   Battalion   yes   yes
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor

#3
October 05, 2020, 08:00:03 PM
I feel like the ground and air combat is more detailed and complex than needs to be the case, but if you're comfortable with that, it's fine - you're the person gaming it out.

I'd flag the consideration that regions and provinces vary tremendously in size so it poses a bit of a challenge to pinning down the range of airpower; but I don't have an answer to that problem.

How are we differentiating naval bases from major ports from other spots where we want coastal guns for random reasons (say, it's a navigational choke point)?

Kaiser Kirk

#4
October 05, 2020, 09:11:41 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 05, 2020, 08:00:03 PM
I feel like the ground and air combat is more detailed and complex than needs to be the case, but if you're comfortable with that, it's fine - you're the person gaming it out.

I'd flag the consideration that regions and provinces vary tremendously in size so it poses a bit of a challenge to pinning down the range of airpower; but I don't have an answer to that problem.

How are we differentiating naval bases from major ports from other spots where we want coastal guns for random reasons (say, it's a navigational choke point)?

A) The Land combat part worked pretty smoothly for San Diego.   Online dice roller and a piece of binder paper for notes, ran fast.
I think Air combat will be similar.
But I need to do testing when I get time.
It's just hard to devise a system that ties into our tech trees and abstract points, but still produces a result that "seems right".

B) That's a known side effect of using the "Victoria" Map unfortunately.
As long as we commit to keeping the Air/Land aspects mostly abstract, we're going to have those discrepencies.

One thing on the 'to do' list is to pick out index aircraft, (likely British as the RN seems the reference for most tech levels), for the Air Points, so I have an idea of naval ranges and "punch" by tech year.  I've got the reference resources...time, well time keeps slipping away.

This also has an echo in Coastal and Land fortifications as some regions are physically huge and yet a point is a point... so the entire region is covered no matter how big it is.


C) This grew out of trying to conceptualize what the Chinese Coastline was like to answer the Japanese desire for probing specific spots...what did abstract coastal defenses mean at those points of contact.

So the main point is if an enemy navy is trying to raid one of your assets. Then Point meets Abstract.

Major Naval Bases are places that meet One or more of the following : You regularly station capital ships or cruiser squadrons, you list a significant portion of your navy as based there on a ongoing basis.   If the location was historically used as such also helps. It is unlikely an anchorage would be considered a Major Naval Base unless you have naval support infrastructure like cruiser-sized drydocks there.

Major Ports are pretty much port symbols in developed provinces, though presence of major trade routes can play into it for islands. I have a map of historic steamship and another of sailing routes. Some adjustment for N7 history would be needed. Storyline may also enter into it.

Minor ports pretty much covers everywhere else you might find a decent landing point.   
Think Wake island and it's 5" guns.

Strategic chokepoints are something I failed to consider and are problematic.
I know Jeftge has specified huge defenses at a chokepoint on the Red Sea. Other folks have chokepoints too, Parthia at the Strait of Hormuz, Iberia at Gibraltar, etc.

There is a problem with the fact some coastal regions have chokepoints and others don't, and what one person thinks is a chokepoint may not be to another person.
Further, I'm unsure how to go about allowing folks to designate a specific fortified point, without letting it be abused.
So that will probably need a litmus test and then be given "Naval Base" or "Major Port" defenses.

Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

The Rock Doctor

#5
October 07, 2022, 05:54:34 PM
So...if I'm reading the Coastal Defence chart correctly, spending a $/BP on coastal defences gives you different outcomes depending on what the destination is, and you get the most bang for your buck if it's spent on a naval base?

TacCovert4

#6
October 07, 2022, 06:17:13 PM
Quote from: The Rock Doctor on October 07, 2022, 05:54:34 PM
So...if I'm reading the Coastal Defence chart correctly, spending a $/BP on coastal defences gives you different outcomes depending on what the destination is, and you get the most bang for your buck if it's spent on a naval base?

Correct.  Keep in mind that most provinces may have minor ports.  Your outlay is generally across the whole province.  So if you outlay enough to give fortifications to minor ports, then your minor ports will get those, and the naval base (if you have one in that province) will get the more serious protection.  I purposely made the outer gates into naval bases because I wanted them to have facilities for repairing my fleet without it having to run the Gulf or the Havana Strait.  Also because I wanted the more serious defensive works there. 
His Most Honorable Majesty,  Ali the 8th, Sultan of All Aztecs,  Eagle of the Sun, Jaguar of the Sun, Snake of the Sun, Seal of the Sun, Whale of the Sun, Defender of the Faith, Keeper of the Teachings of Allah most gracious and merciful.

The Rock Doctor

#7
October 07, 2022, 08:01:03 PM
A single province, or a region of provinces?

Kaiser Kirk

#8
October 08, 2022, 11:30:56 AM
Points are regional.

This is an illustration of the difficulties of a region-based point system vs.  locale - specific naval units.

Technically 1 LP/AP assigned a Region is magically present on whichever frontier is attacked.
Likewise a fort point or a coastal point.

As written, fort points are a +3% at home, and +1% in provincial regions.

What the heck that meant when a player wants to attack a specific geographic spot
and take advantage of terrain.... that became problematic.

Also, what if a player want to defend an important area?

So I produced the Coastal Defense chart, where the defenses
are not uniform across your entire coastline, but concentrated in certain areas,
the more important the more focus.

Minor ports can be at many places. If you have IC in the province, you've developed
the minor ports present.

Port symbols mean the province has one or more major anchorages.
Island provinces automatically have an inherent major anchorage.

Naval bases are loosely defined.
A little bit of 'I'll know it when I'll see it.
If you've got a Port Symbol, and that port- or another major anchorage in that province,
you've stationed either a cruiser division or capital ship persistently, or ~12-16,000tons, and you have drydocks to maintain cruisers +
then you have developed a naval base.

However this all draft and was meant to be talked about after playtesting,
but the past couple years have been really overflowing for me.

I was really looking forward to being furloughed for a couple months when
Covid hit, and then I found out I am 'essential'... twice over.  Fire and Forestry both.
I have never before been essential in my life !
Sheesh, can't catch a break.
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest

Kaiser Kirk

#9
October 08, 2022, 11:51:28 AM
For this war, on land fortifications,
I considered simply the +1% modifier in the rules ,  but that really is pathetic for the point expenditure.

Conceptually, they are region wide.
So they are most likely start as firebases covering strategic points....and upscale from there.

For the Mayan War,
Each Fort point gives +1 offensive die for 'Fort Guns'  and 1 'Fort Soak'.

Each attack is randomly allocated to the defenders, and hits that strike the Fort Guns can disable them for that province,
but the 'Fort Soak' simply absorbs the hit.

Only Forts up to the fort points are engaged at one time.

This makes them ~1/2 as strong as an LP and not mobile, and can't be used offensively.

The result is the longer the war, the more provinces, the better the 'value' for the forts,
as they will slowly damage the attackers... who can pull back and rest and refit.

background
Most board wargames use D6, not D100.
I suppose, we could have done landwarfare as a 'RISK' style system

How to implement the various land techs has long been a back burner issue.
The rules outline % bonuses which is why I came up with a unique combat system that could use %.

Prewar, I sent Snip a big write up, or I think I did, I may have fumbled that one..
In it I outlined a whole bunch of things I wanted to try to do, incorporating the tech levels.
That would also move beyond a % basis in some ways.

Some, like supply points - I realized actually implementing as written would doom the Japanese
from the beginning, so I put on hold.

Others - like the air power, and replacements I am modifying to 'better fit' as we go.
Likewise, Fox wanted his troops to fight defensively, so instead of +2 dice offense,
they have +1 dice offense and a 'dug-in hit' that soaks up damage.

Between that 'dug-in hit' and the forts, they have soaked up enough damage
to keep the IJA still existing in Costa Rica. It's threadbare though.

all of it is open for discussion
Did they beat the drum slowly,
Did they play the fife lowly,
Did they sound the death march, as they lowered you down,
Did the band play the last post and chorus,
Did the pipes play the flowers of the forest
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