Teutonic Marine Concepts

[Nobody]

Thing is, though, if we're going to use the argument that "all that already happened, everyone knows the lessons learned from that", then why would we be building ships that look like WWI ACs, BBs, etc, rather than dreadnoughts and dreadnought cruisers?  The mixed battery battleship was a product of it's environment, where ranges were expected to be short and guns were operating in local control.  If ranges aren't expected to be short (because of better rangefinders, etc), then designs shouldn't look historical.

Because we cannot replicate these rangefinders yet?



In case most insist on building 6x12" ships, I will consider something like this. Your twelve inchers will have quite a hard time denting it.
BBL, Teutonic Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   17.078 t light; 18.009 t standard; 20.000 t normal; 21.593 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (551,18 ft / 551,18 ft) x 91,86 ft x (25,26 / 26,84 ft)
   (168,00 m / 168,00 m) x 28,00 m  x (7,70 / 8,18 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,14" / 283 mm 40,0 cal guns - 529,11lbs / 240,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 7,09" / 180 mm 40,0 cal guns - 141,10lbs / 64,00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 35,27lbs / 16,00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,39lbs / 0,63kg shells, 250 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.488 lbs / 2.489 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   11,48 ft / 3,50 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   192,88 ft / 58,79 m   11,81 ft / 3,60 m
   Upper:   8,66" / 220 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,97" / 50 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   26,25 ft / 8,00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 65,62 ft / 20,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   9,45" / 240 mm   4,33" / 110 mm      5,91" / 150 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         3,15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0,47" / 12 mm         -         2,36" / 60 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13,78" / 350 mm, Aft 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 15.582 ihp / 11.624 Kw = 18,00 kts
   Range 5.900nm at 13,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.583 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1.093

Cost:
   £1,367 million / $5,469 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
      - Guns: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 8.984 tons, 44,9%
      - Belts: 3.961 tons, 19,8%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 685 tons, 3,4%
      - Armament: 2.068 tons, 10,3%
      - Armour Deck: 1.926 tons, 9,6%
      - Conning Towers: 344 tons, 1,7%
   Machinery: 2.236 tons, 11,2%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.682 tons, 23,4%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.922 tons, 14,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32.855 lbs / 14.903 Kg = 47,5 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 6,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,36
   Metacentric height 7,5 ft / 2,3 m
   Roll period: 14,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,547 / 0,556
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  14,44 ft / 4,40 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,79 ft / 4,20 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 107,3%
   Waterplane Area: 35.246 Square feet or 3.274 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 644 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,99
      - Longitudinal: 1,03
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons

[Carthaginian]

KWorld... Do you have experience, small arms or otherwise, in spotting rounds or fall of shell? I do not have to use hindsight to know it is hard to tell the difference between the impact of a heavy machine gun and a medium caliber rifle at 500 yds or more. Same principle here... the fact that the similar sized splashes would be confusing only requires anyone with reasonable experience in gunlaying doing a comparison on the spot.

[Nobody]

Revised (better I think) version of my 'heavy battleship' design:

BBL, Teutonic Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   17.058 t light; 17.989 t standard; 20.000 t normal; 21.609 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (508,53 ft / 508,53 ft) x 82,02 ft x (27,89 / 29,73 ft)
   (155,00 m / 155,00 m) x 25,00 m  x (8,50 / 9,06 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,14" / 283 mm 40,0 cal guns - 529,11lbs / 240,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 7,09" / 180 mm 40,0 cal guns - 141,10lbs / 64,00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 35,27lbs / 16,00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,39lbs / 0,63kg shells, 250 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.488 lbs / 2.489 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   11,81 ft / 3,60 m
   Ends:   7,87" / 200 mm   177,95 ft / 54,24 m   11,81 ft / 3,60 m
   Upper:   12,0" / 305 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,97" / 50 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   29,53 ft / 9,00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59,06 ft / 18,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,2" / 360 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   9,84" / 250 mm   5,91" / 150 mm      8,66" / 220 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         3,15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0,47" / 12 mm         -         2,36" / 60 mm

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13,78" / 350 mm, Aft 9,84" / 250 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16.500 ihp / 12.309 Kw = 18,19 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 13,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.620 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1.093

Cost:
   £1,385 million / $5,540 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
      - Guns: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 9.516 tons, 47,6%
      - Belts: 4.406 tons, 22,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 711 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 2.172 tons, 10,9%
      - Armour Deck: 1.852 tons, 9,3%
      - Conning Towers: 375 tons, 1,9%
   Machinery: 2.368 tons, 11,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.958 tons, 19,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.942 tons, 14,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 40 tons, 0,2%
      - Hull below water: 10 tons
      - Hull above water: 10 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 10 tons
      - Above deck: 10 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28.390 lbs / 12.877 Kg = 41,1 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 5,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,23
   Metacentric height 5,4 ft / 1,6 m
   Roll period: 14,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,602 / 0,610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,61 ft / 4,15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92,0%
   Waterplane Area: 30.557 Square feet or 2.839 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,19
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons

40 tons of weight reserve

[Nobody]

I realized that my armor belts were way too high, so here is my 3rd incarnation of the 'heavy battleship' concept. I extended the main belt to the whole side and used the idea from the rules to use the upper belt to simulate a sloped armor deck.
BBL3, Teutonic Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   17.074 t light; 17.992 t standard; 20.000 t normal; 21.607 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (508,53 ft / 508,53 ft) x 82,02 ft x (28,22 / 30,07 ft)
   (155,00 m / 155,00 m) x 25,00 m  x (8,60 / 9,16 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,14" / 283 mm 40,0 cal guns - 529,11lbs / 240,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 7,09" / 180 mm 40,0 cal guns - 165,35lbs / 75,00kg shells, 160 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 35,27lbs / 16,00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,39lbs / 0,63kg shells, 250 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.827 lbs / 2.643 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
   Ends:   8,66" / 220 mm   177,95 ft / 54,24 m   11,81 ft / 3,60 m
   Upper:   1,97" / 50 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   5,00 ft / 1,53 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,97" / 50 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   29,53 ft / 9,00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59,06 ft / 18,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,2" / 360 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   11,0" / 280 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      9,84" / 250 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         3,15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0,47" / 12 mm         -         2,36" / 60 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,54" / 90 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13,78" / 350 mm, Aft 11,02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16.500 ihp / 12.309 Kw = 18,21 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 13,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.615 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1.093

Cost:
   £1,385 million / $5,542 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
      - Guns: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 9.421 tons, 47,1%
      - Belts: 4.228 tons, 21,1%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 711 tons, 3,6%
      - Armament: 2.249 tons, 11,2%
      - Armour Deck: 1.840 tons, 9,2%
      - Conning Towers: 394 tons, 2,0%
   Machinery: 2.368 tons, 11,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.009 tons, 20,0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.926 tons, 14,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,5%
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 30 tons
      - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28.664 lbs / 13.002 Kg = 41,4 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 5,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,26
   Metacentric height 5,6 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 14,5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,595 / 0,603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,61 ft / 4,15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91,4%
   Waterplane Area: 30.358 Square feet or 2.820 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 627 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Upper belt is increased thickness of armor deck sloops
37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons
100 t reserve

I made a possible armor cross-section, since SpringSharp assumes armor decks as bolted on top of an existing deck, which is probably between .5" and 15mm thick, I noted it down as "+10 mm". The 'block' on top of the deck is a casemate for the 18cm guns.

[Jefgte]

47% of armour, That's "kolossal"

IMO, reduce armor & increase speed to the classic 21kts.


Jef

[snip]

or making the ship lighter would be an option.

[Carthaginian]

Upper belt is increased thickness of armor deck sloops
37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons
100 t reserve[/tt]

I made a possible armor cross-section, since SpringSharp assumes armor decks as bolted on top of an existing deck, which is probably between .5" and 15mm thick, I noted it down as "+10 mm". The 'block' on top of the deck is a casemate for the 18cm guns.

Not sure that is a good idea.
The positions of the belts do some funny things with a ships's steadiness and stability.
We should just stick with using each belt location as it was intended EXCEPT for protected cruisers, which have no other way of simming things, save trying to create some kind of horribly overcomplicated algorithm for how deck/slope armor is distributed and how thick an armored deck should be to approximate this.

So, for anytihng but a protected cruiser, we are just going to assume that the armor is uniform in thickness.

[Nobody]

Jef, snip:
The whole point of this 'heavy battleship' is to be enormously armored. And the 20 kn range was only 'classic' for turbine driven ships. At least all non-turbine ships I looked at had a top speed of 18 kn.

As you wish Carth, but I don't really see any difference.

BBL3, Teutonic Battleship laid down 1905

Displacement:
   17.074 t light; 17.992 t standard; 20.000 t normal; 21.607 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (508,53 ft / 508,53 ft) x 82,02 ft x (28,22 / 30,07 ft)
   (155,00 m / 155,00 m) x 25,00 m  x (8,60 / 9,16 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11,14" / 283 mm 40,0 cal guns - 529,11lbs / 240,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1905 Model
     6 x 2-gun mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      14 - 7,09" / 180 mm 40,0 cal guns - 165,35lbs / 75,00kg shells, 160 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1905 Model
     14 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      8 - 4,13" / 105 mm 40,0 cal guns - 35,27lbs / 16,00kg shells, 250 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,39lbs / 0,63kg shells, 250 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1905 Model
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
     4 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 double raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 5.827 lbs / 2.643 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   17,06 ft / 5,20 m
   Ends:   8,66" / 220 mm   177,95 ft / 54,24 m   11,81 ft / 3,60 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,97" / 50 mm   330,54 ft / 100,75 m   32,81 ft / 10,00 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 59,06 ft / 18,00 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14,2" / 360 mm   9,45" / 240 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   11,0" / 280 mm   7,09" / 180 mm      9,84" / 250 mm
   3rd:   0,79" / 20 mm         -         3,15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0,47" / 12 mm         -         2,36" / 60 mm

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,94" / 100 mm
   Forecastle: 1,97" / 50 mm  Quarter deck: 1,97" / 50 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 13,78" / 350 mm, Aft 11,02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 16.500 ihp / 12.309 Kw = 18,21 kts
   Range 6.000nm at 13,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.615 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1.093

Cost:
   £1,385 million / $5,542 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
      - Guns: 1.176 tons, 5,9%
   Armour: 9.504 tons, 47,5%
      - Belts: 4.085 tons, 20,4%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 790 tons, 3,9%
      - Armament: 2.214 tons, 11,1%
      - Armour Deck: 2.021 tons, 10,1%
      - Conning Towers: 394 tons, 2,0%
   Machinery: 2.368 tons, 11,8%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.926 tons, 19,6%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2.926 tons, 14,6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 100 tons, 0,5%
      - Hull below water: 20 tons
      - Hull above water: 20 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 30 tons
      - Above deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     28.793 lbs / 13.060 Kg = 41,6 x 11,1 " / 283 mm shells or 5,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,27
   Metacentric height 5,7 ft / 1,7 m
   Roll period: 14,4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,595 / 0,603
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,20 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,55 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 40 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,78 ft / 4,20 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,61 ft / 4,15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 91,4%
   Waterplane Area: 30.358 Square feet or 2.820 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 107%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,98
      - Longitudinal: 1,21
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons
100 t reserve
Deck Armor distribution (+10 indicates normal deck structures):
   60 mm upper deck (50+10)
   40 mm lower flat portion (50-20+10)
   90 mm sloops (50 + 2*20)


And here is also my first try on a armored/large/heavy cruiser. Pretty much the opposite, focused on firepower and speed instead of protection. I also might have fully exploited the being a pre-dreadnought here:

, Teutonic Panzerkreuzer laid down 1908

Displacement:
   11.443 t light; 12.067 t standard; 15.000 t normal; 17.346 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (552,83 ft / 551,18 ft) x 68,90 ft x (26,25 / 29,41 ft)
   (168,50 m / 168,00 m) x 21,00 m  x (8,00 / 8,97 m)

Armament:
      8 - 8,66" / 220 mm 45,0 cal guns - 308,65lbs / 140,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1908 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 - 8,66" / 220 mm 45,0 cal guns - 308,65lbs / 140,00kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
     4 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      4 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4,13" / 105 mm 45,0 cal guns - 33,07lbs / 15,00kg shells, 200 per gun
     Quick firing guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
     12 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      30 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,39lbs / 0,63kg shells, 250 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1908 Model
     6 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      6 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 4.142 lbs / 1.879 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 21,7" / 550 mm, 26,25 ft / 8,00 m torpedoes - 1,722 t each, 6,890 t total
   submerged bow & stern tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   3,94" / 100 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   14,76 ft / 4,50 m
   Ends:   2,36" / 60 mm   192,88 ft / 58,79 m   9,84 ft / 3,00 m
   Upper:   3,15" / 80 mm   137,80 ft / 42,00 m   8,20 ft / 2,50 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead - Strengthened structural bulkheads:
      1,18" / 30 mm   358,27 ft / 109,20 m   23,69 ft / 7,22 m
   Beam between torpedo bulkheads 66,27 ft / 20,20 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   8,27" / 210 mm   5,12" / 130 mm      7,87" / 200 mm
   2nd:   7,87" / 200 mm   3,94" / 100 mm            -
   3rd:   5,12" / 130 mm   3,15" / 80 mm      4,72" / 120 mm
   4th:   0,59" / 15 mm         -         1,97" / 50 mm

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1,18" / 30 mm
   Forecastle: 0,79" / 20 mm  Quarter deck: 0,79" / 20 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 7,87" / 200 mm, Aft 4,33" / 110 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 37.800 ihp / 28.199 Kw = 24,14 kts
   Range 8.000nm at 15,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.279 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   677 - 881

Cost:
   £1,207 million / $4,827 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.019 tons, 6,8%
      - Guns: 1.005 tons, 6,7%
      - Weapons: 14 tons, 0,1%
   Armour: 3.463 tons, 23,1%
      - Belts: 1.234 tons, 8,2%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 371 tons, 2,5%
      - Armament: 1.162 tons, 7,7%
      - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 3,6%
      - Conning Towers: 160 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 3.402 tons, 22,7%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3.529 tons, 23,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.557 tons, 23,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0,2%
      - Hull below water: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15.780 lbs / 7.157 Kg = 48,6 x 8,7 " / 220 mm shells or 1,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,32
   Metacentric height 4,7 ft / 1,4 m
   Roll period: 13,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,37
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,36

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,527 / 0,544
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23,48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 4,10 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  22,97 ft / 7,00 m,  20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Forward deck:   25,00%,  20,34 ft / 6,20 m,  20,34 ft / 6,20 m
      - Aft deck:   40,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  12,47 ft / 3,80 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      16,27 ft / 4,96 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,8%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 113,1%
   Waterplane Area: 25.932 Square feet or 2.409 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 558 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,97
      - Longitudinal: 1,29
      - Overall: 1,00
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

30 t misc - Torpedo Tubes: 7 t
   3 Torpedos per Tube: 21 t
   reserve: 2 t

Is the Torpedo-handling correct here?

[Jefgte]

IMO, futur BBs speed 'll be 21 kts.
A 1905 BB could be 21 kts to serve in the futur battleline.
The armored cruiser is powerfull, fast but with relatively light belt.

----

That's also logical to start the Navy in 1895 & then, increase year after year in size & performances.
Nova Francia ACs program
AC1 & AC2-1897,1900,1901 - 7900t
AC3-1903 - 10 000t
AC4-1906 - 12 500t
AC5-1909 - 15 000t

[KWorld]

On the AC, good speed, excellent range & firepower (yes, you're taking full advantage of the rules, but the same rules apply to everyone so I'm good with it).  Protection against other ACs firing APC, though, is pretty poor.  If you can smother them in 22cm fire, you'll do OK, but any large-caliber hits will likely penetrate your armor.

[Carthaginian]

Nice little tinclad- she's fast enough and heavily armed enough to last into the "battlecruiser era" a bit.
Now, she's going to wear out her engines like there isn't any tomorrow... but that's neither here no there in our world.

I'm not getting the armored deck protection. So, you have more than one deck... that's OK.
There aren't any 'slopes and flats' though. *They won't be effective, largely because the combat system won't model them.*
Protected cruisers are the exception only because there is no other way to do it.

[Nobody]

Another 'Juggernaut' concept... It's so crazy I like it 8)
I kind of felt this is required to counter a 4x12" + many 10" 'double' battery.
, Teutonic Large Battleship laid down 1908

Displacement:
   16.852 t light; 17.908 t standard; 20.000 t normal; 21.674 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (528,22 ft / 524,93 ft) x 82,02 ft x (27,89 / 29,78 ft)
   (161,00 m / 160,00 m) x 25,00 m  x (8,50 / 9,08 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 661,39lbs / 300,00kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1908 Model
     2 x 2-gun mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      10 - 11,02" / 280 mm 45,0 cal guns - 661,39lbs / 300,00kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      18 - 5,91" / 150 mm 45,0 cal guns - 99,21lbs / 45,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1908 Model
     18 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      18 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      20 - 3,46" / 88,0 mm 45,0 cal guns - 19,84lbs / 9,00kg shells, 150 per gun
     Quick firing guns in deck and hoist mounts, 1908 Model
     20 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      20 raised mounts
      40 - 1,46" / 37,0 mm 20,0 cal guns - 1,32lbs / 0,60kg shells, 150 per gun
     Auto rapid fire guns in deck mounts, 1908 Model
     8 x Quintuple mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 raised mounts
      Weight of broadside 11.495 lbs / 5.214 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12,0" / 305 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Ends:   5,91" / 150 mm   183,69 ft / 55,99 m   10,86 ft / 3,31 m
   Upper:   8,66" / 220 mm   341,21 ft / 104,00 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   7,87" / 200 mm      13,0" / 330 mm
   2nd:   11,8" / 300 mm   5,91" / 150 mm            -
   3rd:   7,87" / 200 mm         -               -
   4th:   1,18" / 30 mm         -         2,95" / 75 mm
   5th:   0,59" / 15 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3,15" / 80 mm
   Forecastle: 0,98" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1,38" / 35 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 12,99" / 330 mm, Aft 7,87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal and oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 33.000 ihp / 24.618 Kw = 21,94 kts
   Range 5.500nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3.766 tons (90% coal)

Complement:
   840 - 1.093

Cost:
   £1,705 million / $6,819 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1.828 tons, 9,1%
      - Guns: 1.828 tons, 9,1%
   Armour: 6.954 tons, 34,8%
      - Belts: 3.409 tons, 17,0%
      - Armament: 1.604 tons, 8,0%
      - Armour Deck: 1.610 tons, 8,0%
      - Conning Towers: 331 tons, 1,7%
   Machinery: 2.970 tons, 14,9%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4.899 tons, 24,5%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3.149 tons, 15,7%
   Miscellaneous weights: 200 tons, 1,0%
      - Hull below water: 100 tons
      - Hull above water: 60 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     22.956 lbs / 10.413 Kg = 34,3 x 11,0 " / 280 mm shells or 2,6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,43
   Metacentric height 6,9 ft / 2,1 m
   Roll period: 13,1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,32
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0,583 / 0,592
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,40 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 22,91 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,39 ft / 0,12 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20,00%,  16,40 ft / 5,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Forward deck:   30,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Aft deck:   35,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Quarter deck:   15,00%,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m,  13,12 ft / 4,00 m
      - Average freeboard:      13,39 ft / 4,08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82,2%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 92,2%
   Waterplane Area: 30.993 Square feet or 2.879 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 139 lbs/sq ft or 678 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,96
      - Longitudinal: 1,35
      - Overall: 1,00
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room

37 mm "Quintuple" are Hotchkiss Revolving Cannons
200 t misc (=1% of the ship) for splinter protection

[Carthaginian]

It's crazy- and I kind of like it.
Granted, you'd only get to fire those casemate 11" guns about every other minute or so- but hey, it would have a heck of a broadside when it could fire.

In terms of the game- they would fire once every 3rd round.
Something the size of a 12" casemate would probably fire every 4th round.

[Nobody]

Really? Why would a casemate gun fire significantly slower than one in a turret? If it only fires at half the speed of a turreted gun (or worse), a Q turret would be a much better choice.

[Carthaginian]

Really? Why would a casemate gun fire significantly slower than one in a turret? If it only fires at half the speed of a turreted gun (or worse), a Q turret would be a much better choice.

Uhm... different shell handling equipment?
A rotating gunhouse on a barbette would have a much more automated shell-handling system than a casemated mount. Look at pictures of the two different types of mounts historically to see what I mean. Then imagine trying to load a 300kg shell with the kinds of equipment you see in the casemate mounts.

If everyone decides to go A-Q-Y then the option will be eliminated; no I know why Rocky made it a different tech level in N3.