N4.5 Rules Question/Comment thread

[KWorld]

I could wish the term for the player agreement on what is and isn't legal wasn't "treaty".  That's an IC term for an agreement between countries, which isn't what the ship equipment and size limitation rules are.  Treaties are something that your country agrees to, the rules apply without any agreement on your country's part.

[Darman]

The "treaty" is actually a treaty that your country has agreed to according to the storyline.  The point of it being a treaty is that we can amend it when 3/4 or 3/5 or whatever the number is have agreed to the amendment.  So the only rule is you must obey the treaty.  The treaty can be amended, the rule cant.  At least that has been my take on how its supposed to work. 

[KWorld]

An IC treaty, though, can be skirted or broken, but the "treaty" being talked about is the tech restrictions.and rules we're operating under. in an OOC fashion.

[snip]

The "treaty" is actually a treaty that your country has agreed to according to the storyline.  The point of it being a treaty is that we can amend it when 3/4 or 3/5 or whatever the number is have agreed to the amendment.  So the only rule is you must obey the treaty.  The treaty can be amended, the rule cant.  At least that has been my take on how its supposed to work.

Correct.

[Delta Force]

In the rules it says that a torpedo boat is defined as "(a)   A vessel of less than 500 tons carrying a primary armament of torpedoes" Since it is easier to work with numbers divisible by 10, and since all the other definitions are for ships greater than a specified tonnage, can the torpedo boat definition be changed to exclude vessels that are over 500 tons?

[Carthaginian]

That will be taken under advisement.

[Delta Force]

What is the difference between the side and center rotating torpedo tubes? Does it just refer to where the tubes are located on deck? Can they fire fore and aft or only deliver torpedo broadsides? Are the reloadable torpedo tubes the only ones that are capable of being reloaded (carriage and rotating tubes only holding one)?

Also what is the difference between broadside and casemate mounts, and what kind of mount is used by guns that are in barbettes (without turrets) but have some face armor?

[KWorld]

What is the difference between the side and center rotating torpedo tubes? Does it just refer to where the tubes are located on deck? Can they fire fore and aft or only deliver torpedo broadsides? Are the reloadable torpedo tubes the only ones that are capable of being reloaded (carriage and rotating tubes only holding one)?

A side-mounted torpedo tube is one that's mounted to side of the centerline, like the above-water torpedo tubes on most WWI cruisers or the tubes on the US four-piper destroyers.  Side mounts cannot fire directly fore and aft, though they might have a somewhat wider arc of fire on their side of the ship than a center-line mounted tube would.  Generally they cannot fire on the opposite beam, think of them as torpedo wing turrets not mounted en echelon.

Also what is the difference between broadside and casemate mounts, and what kind of mount is used by guns that are in barbettes (without turrets) but have some face armor?

A broadside mount is a mounting firing through a fixed gun port, with the gun poking out of the side of the ship and having traverse limited by the shape of the gun port, while a casemate, aboard ship, puts the gun in a mounting that is set in a large cut away section of the hull or superstructure with the mounts protection surrounding the mounting.  Casemates can have quite large fields of fire (120 degrees or more), while broadside mounts will have much less (30 degrees or so).  The open barbette mounts were used mostly for very large, slow firing guns, if SS doesn't let you install a gun shield on those about the only thing you could use would be a mount & hoist mounting.

[Delta Force]

Thanks for the help. One more question I have is about what kind of designation should be used for autocannons. Are they considered to be auto fire guns (not being manually fed like QF and being too large to be an MG)? Also, do weights change when you reclassify what kind of gun something is? I've been putting everything down as a breechloader but my 90 mm guns are QF and my 37 mm guns are autocannons.

[KWorld]

Thanks for the help. One more question I have is about what kind of designation should be used for autocannons. Are they considered to be auto fire guns (not being manually fed like QF and being too large to be an MG)? Also, do weights change when you reclassify what kind of gun something is? I've been putting everything down as a breechloader but my 90 mm guns are QF and my 37 mm guns are autocannons.

Well, when you say "autocannon", what are they like?  If they're like the Maxim 1 pounder, then you'd code them as an autocannon, I'd think (I don't think SS will let you code them as a machine gun).  Weights can change when you change the coding: breach loading to quick firing shouldn't make any difference, but autocannon might be heavier than breach loading.

[Delta Force]

Thanks for the help. One more question I have is about what kind of designation should be used for autocannons. Are they considered to be auto fire guns (not being manually fed like QF and being too large to be an MG)? Also, do weights change when you reclassify what kind of gun something is? I've been putting everything down as a breechloader but my 90 mm guns are QF and my 37 mm guns are autocannons.

Well, when you say "autocannon", what are they like?  If they're like the Maxim 1 pounder, then you'd code them as an autocannon, I'd think (I don't think SS will let you code them as a machine gun).  Weights can change when you change the coding: breach loading to quick firing shouldn't make any difference, but autocannon might be heavier than breach loading.

They are 27 mm (0.25 kg) and 37 mm (0.50 kg) and similar to the 1 pound guns.

Edit: I've modified one of my designs using 37 mm guns and 90 mm guns and it appears that the type of gun something is makes no difference on the weights. One issue though is that auto fire cannons are not allowed even in 1900 because Springsharp says it is too early for them, even though the 1 pounder design entered service in 1895. Should I just list it as QF and put in a note that it is an autocannon type weapon?

[KWorld]

They are 27 mm (0.25 kg) and 37 mm (0.50 kg) and similar to the 1 pound guns.

Edit: I've modified one of my designs using 37 mm guns and 90 mm guns and it appears that the type of gun something is makes no difference on the weights. One issue though is that auto fire cannons are not allowed even in 1900 because Springsharp says it is too early for them, even though the 1 pounder design entered service in 1895. Should I just list it as QF and put in a note that it is an autocannon type weapon?

That's probably the way to do it, since SS3b3 won't let you do it correctly.  Ideally, it would let you code it as a machinegun, because it was just a Maxim machinegun on steroids, but SS3b3 won't let you do that.

[Delta Force]

Do we have to have a constant rate of ship production over the course of our startup navies, or can we have slightly more tonnage for the last few years? Right now I have a constant rate of 35700 tons over the years of my building program, could I take around 3,000 tons from an earlier year and put it towards a later year to construct a scout cruiser?

[Darman]

I don't really know.  I think i tried that and someone said that the amount I was starting with was too much.  I may also have started with some weird number like 60,000 or something....

[KWorld]

From what's been said, it doesn't have to be constant, but don't expect to build nothing for 10 years and then go crazy the last five.  My plan has an upward curve to it (I did my planning in 5 year blocks, not year by year), based on 2 ideas: 1, the Columbiad Republic Navy had a building "spurt" from 1884-1894 and then had a low period, with things building back up again as time passed; and 2, the CRN, as ideas and dreams for overseas colonization percolate and crystallize into intentions and plans, gets more and more funding.