N4.5 Rules Question/Comment thread

Started by snip, April 12, 2012, 08:02:56 PM

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Carthaginian

Quote from: KWorld on May 21, 2012, 06:14:42 AM
WesWorld, from what I've seen, also periodically erupts into arguments over whether or not something is "reasonable" or not given their assumptions (which have changed over time).  That's not counting the arguments over whether someone was breaking the treaty back when they had one, etc, I'm talking strictly about their periodic tech arguments.


Long-base range finders were not necessary for long-range shooting.  See the Battle of the Yellow Sea for an example: both sides were shooting and hitting at ranges far beyond the range of their rangefinders (the Japanese rangefinders had a maximum range of 6000 meters or less, the Russians only 4000 meters, but firing and hitting began at over 8 miles.

I fired a long-range rifle caliber weapon, KWorld.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M2_Browning
My longest shot was at the fringe of the 2000 yard maximum effective range for an area target... and I was firing on a point target- if you go to Google Earth and zoom in on Lake Tharthar and find the old Presidential Palace, that is where it was- if it is still there now, I do not know. A lot of 'remodeling' has gone on in Iraq since I was there in '03-'04.

The point being- I know very well that it CAN be done.
I also know very well it is not MEANT to be done, nor is it a very effective thing to depend upon. You can't shoot ACCURATELY or RELIABLY without optics that are made fore the job- though training can sometimes compensate to a degree.

In terms of simming the battles, there are  bonuses to long-range fire if you have the kinds of fire control that will exist on ships AFTER startup (dreadnoughts). And ship built before will not get these bonuses... they will be firing at higher penalties at longer ranges. I can't post exactly what because the material is copyrighted... but the dice are D6, so even a -1 penalty can be telling.
So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in old Baghdad;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

KWorld

#136
I know maintenance for ships was changed from 10% per quarter to 2.5%.  Is the same true for ground units, or are they still at 10% per quarter?  I'm getting ready for Turn 1, so I'm trying to get my spreadsheets up and ready to go.  :)
Personally, I'd suggest leaving their maintenance at 10%, but that's just me.

Darman

Speaking of spreadsheets, if somebody who's good at Excel made an example file and was willing to share it I'd be extremely grateful. 

snip

Quote from: KWorld on May 22, 2012, 08:13:09 AM
I know maintenance for ships was changed from 10% per quarter to 2.5%.  Is the same true for ground units, or are they still at 10% per quarter?  I'm getting ready for Turn 1, so I'm trying to get my spreadsheets up and ready to go.  :)
Personally, I'd suggest leaving their maintenance at 10%, but that's just me.
One paper left and everything will be updated. Just need a bit of decompression time.

Quote from: Darman on May 22, 2012, 05:04:02 PM
Speaking of spreadsheets, if somebody who's good at Excel made an example file and was willing to share it I'd be extremely grateful. 
See above
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

KWorld

One downside that I'm noticing to SS3.3 is that when you include substantial amounts of "cargo" tonnage, the various tonnages aren't adjusted for that.  Admittedly, the program doesn't really have a way to designate cargo vs fittings, but still.....

For example, my Lighter Carrier has a maximum tonnage of 6351 and carries a total of 4080 tons of cargo and smaller vessels, but the normal tonnage is 6193 tons and the light is 5871.

Carthaginian

Quote from: KWorld on May 25, 2012, 11:12:28 AM
One downside that I'm noticing to SS3.3 is that when you include substantial amounts of "cargo" tonnage, the various tonnages aren't adjusted for that.  Admittedly, the program doesn't really have a way to designate cargo vs fittings, but still.....

For example, my Lighter Carrier has a maximum tonnage of 6351 and carries a total of 4080 tons of cargo and smaller vessels, but the normal tonnage is 6193 tons and the light is 5871.

It's including the weights of cargo as part of the ship.
Not the most intuitive thing on the planet, I understand, but the Miscellaneous Weights section isn't supposed to be for cargo, actually. That is why the 'discount' on the construction of the ships comes into play.
So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in old Baghdad;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

snip

OK, finals are over and my brain is sufficiently unscrambled to polish off the rules and other things. That being the case, anything that needs clarification or alteration (within reason) before I make these final? We are also closing in on the start date, June 16th, when we want to get things going, so please let me know your country name and such so I can add it to the master list. Also, if those of you that have them could start posting fleet plans just so we can see how that is coming along. Would help to make sure that no math FUBARs have been committed by anyone, even the egghead studying math. *points at self*
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

KWorld

Well, there's still these two questions hanging open.

Quote from: snip on May 22, 2012, 05:17:17 PM
Quote from: KWorld on May 22, 2012, 08:13:09 AM
I know maintenance for ships was changed from 10% per quarter to 2.5%.  Is the same true for ground units, or are they still at 10% per quarter?  I'm getting ready for Turn 1, so I'm trying to get my spreadsheets up and ready to go.  :)
Personally, I'd suggest leaving their maintenance at 10%, but that's just me.
One paper left and everything will be updated. Just need a bit of decompression time.

Quote from: Darman on May 22, 2012, 05:04:02 PM
Speaking of spreadsheets, if somebody who's good at Excel made an example file and was willing to share it I'd be extremely grateful. 
See above


Also, the concept has the various nations needing to expand to acquire more resources, how is that handled?

KWorld

Another maintenance question: how are ships that are in reserve handled?  Since maintenance costs double during wartime and the rules don't seem to have any similar increase in output for the factories, we're probably going to need rules of some sort to handle ships that are not available for active use but can be made active after some time and some amount of cash....

snip

Im working on updating the rules document now, and should have a revised on posted after work today, or maybe even during lunch if things continue to be slow (yay IT work). I will have to go back over the spreadsheet then to make sure that all the numbers match up and such. As to reserves, I did not wish to include another category due to the complexity which stems from lots of categories. I can work out something for increased production during wartime if that is a feature that the community would like.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Walter

- Infrastructure Development Factories. Are these separate from the startup 32 Military Factories or are these part of the startup 32 Military Factories?

- Infrastructure Development Factories are based on the formula F^(3/7)). I don't think that that formula is going to give you a round number. Round up or down?

- The Infrastructure Development Factories are fixed to produce IPPs and cannot change to military production. Perhaps an idea that the increased wartime production will come from those factories if wartime production "is a feature that the community would like"?

- Looking at the types of ships, what if a <20000 ton ship does not fall into any of the categories? For example a +20 knot, 2x3" gun armed 450 ton minesweeper or a +20 knot, 2x 5" armed 2000 ton minelayer? In those two cases, the speed prevents them from being put into the only category they might fit into (gunboat). Is a player allowed to put the 450 ton example into the DD category and the 2000 ton example into the CL category or are such ships falling outside the categories prohibited?

Carthaginian

Quote from: Walter on May 29, 2012, 01:23:47 PM
- Looking at the types of ships, what if a <20000 ton ship does not fall into any of the categories? For example a +20 knot, 2x3" gun armed 450 ton minesweeper or a +20 knot, 2x 5" armed 2000 ton minelayer? In those two cases, the speed prevents them from being put into the only category they might fit into (gunboat). Is a player allowed to put the 450 ton example into the DD category and the 2000 ton example into the CL category or are such ships falling outside the categories prohibited?

Ships are classified in the most restrictive manner- so you are right, both would be moved into the 'next highest' category.
So 'ere's to you, Fuzzy-Wuzzy, at your 'ome in old Baghdad;
You're a pore benighted 'eathen but a first-class fightin' man;
We gives you your certificate, an' if you want it signed
We'll come an' 'ave a romp with you whenever you're inclined.

snip

QuoteInfrastructure Development Factories. Are these separate from the startup 32 Military Factories or are these part of the startup 32 Military Factories?

Separate, as the number is determined by Military factories. There will be four IDPs at start up

QuoteInfrastructure Development Factories are based on the formula F^(3/7)). I don't think that that formula is going to give you a round number. Round up or down?

Down to the closest whole number.
Quote
The Infrastructure Development Factories are fixed to produce IPPs and cannot change to military production. Perhaps an idea that the increased wartime production will come from those factories if wartime production "is a feature that the community would like"?

Im strangely fond of the idea...let me work with it.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

Quick update: I think I have everything fixed, clarified and tweaked as much as it needs to be, but I haven't had a chance to talk with Carth about them. Our work schedules don't quite mesh until later in the week. Will get the econ stuff out as soon as we have had a chance to go over it together.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

KWorld

Map?  Anyone seen a current map?