Starfire Discussion: Split

ctwaterman · December 05, 2011, 10:50:06 PM

Now if Rocky wants to run an nice big game of Starfire....

I am so IN......

Charles

Valles · December 06, 2011, 04:41:57 AM

While I would be eager to sign up for a Starfire game, I've found that my attempts to play such seem to be freakin' cursed, and that it would therefore probably be better to concentrate on the floating warships rather than the flying ones.

Carthaginian · December 06, 2011, 11:05:55 AM

OK... guys, WTF is Starfire, and how can an RPG obsessed nerg get his hands on a copy? ;)

The Rock Doctor · December 06, 2011, 11:26:46 AM

I'm borrowing elements from it, but I wasn't thinking of running a campaign, per se...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starfire_(board_wargame)

Carthaginian · December 06, 2011, 11:55:40 AM

Now comes the questions:

How is it that SVC made a game I don't know about?
Does ADB own the rights to the game (now or ever), or were lost sometime in the past?
Can one create new races/empires for the game; if yes, is it difficult or easy?
Is it worth the money to order the $50.00 Ultimate package?

*investigates a bit*
HOLY CRAP... the counters look like they were pilfered from SFB!

Valles · December 06, 2011, 06:13:34 PM

I'm most familiar with the 'Ultra' incarnation, in which race creation is quite easy and 'building one's own empire' is in fact the entire 'grand strategic' side of the game.

I have only limited familiarity with the rights situation, but I know it's complicated.

No clue about the value of the Ultimate package. I probably wouldn't, but that's 'cause I'm broke as broke and I /think/ I still have my old copy of Ultra floating around somewhere in the digital depths of my HD.

Carthaginian · December 06, 2011, 10:26:02 PM

Oh, I know that creating an 'empire' (as in 'taking control of a large area of space) is part of the game... it looks, on the whole, like a modified Federation and Empire setup- with exploration/exploitation playing a larger part than combat. When I typed 'race/empire' I was simply meaning 'species'; in SFB/FedCom/F&E, you generally refer to them as 'empires' as 50% of the time there is more than one 'race' in each 'empire.'

Might just have to spend the annual Gift Card from the in-laws on this one!

Valles · December 07, 2011, 07:41:15 AM

Ah. Yes, 'species' can produce mechanical effects on the larger game, both at the tactical and strategic levels. There's a point buy system for what does what, as well as planetary habitability rules. Obviously, the visual appearance or whatever of a species is up to the player.

It's assumed that at start of play each 'empire' is monospecies, although amalgamations are possible.

ctwaterman · December 08, 2011, 09:32:31 PM

Ok I split Starfire discussion off into a seperate thread....

Starfire is a great system its economics are easily understood.

If you want to form a Colony on a newly Discovered Moon... you consult the Charts for the Habitiabilty Index of the Moon and then you pay to build the Colony. You also Pay to move the Colonist to the Colony and depending on the Distance [Number of systems away from where they are comming from] you might pay even more.

It has a technology tree.... From Frigates and Destroyers armed with primative missiles, Lasers, and such up to Super Dreadnaughts with Hetrodyne Lasers or even Carriers with space born fighters capable of launching strikes from outside the range of even the longest ranged missiles. You have to develop a tech level and then you have to develop so many of the items on that tech level before you can start working on the next tech level.

For those who have an aversion to spread sheets well I have found no other way to play the game even when you outlaw things like Asteroid Colonies because tracking them all just takes to much time and you want to limit income to a reasonable level it requires a spread sheet of some sort once you get beyond say 3 or 4 star systems.

QuoteWarning for those of you interested in building a huge exploration fleet and jumping thru the 1st worm hole you find well you could wind up incountering a potentially hostile species who is up to 2 Tech Levels higher then you. As an example you largest ship type is a Heavy Cruiser and their is a Dreadnaught they have strike fighters and long range missiles and you do not... and you just pissed them off by revealing to them the existance of worm holes and invading their home system.

Carthaginian · December 08, 2011, 10:00:02 PM

Not averse to spreadsheets... I'm just unable to write them. ;)
Sounds like a fun game if you can get several like-minded people together to play it.

Valles · December 09, 2011, 10:20:54 AM

There are computer support options available for both 3rd Edition and Ultra, although I believe that the latter has a nominal fee associated these days and the former was, last I checked, given to legal troubles.

But for a proper Starfire game, I'd damn well learn spreadsheets.

miketr · December 11, 2011, 05:01:19 PM

Problem with starfire is it tends to get bogged down when there are more than say 10 system per player. Big changes to game between Imperial Starfire and 3rd Ed and even more changes between 3rd and Ultra.

I like 3rd Ed the best but it does have problems. A fun game, I have run several campaigns but I keep having problems with players doing turns and the like. Starfire Assistant is the best support aid out there but its very complex for new people and it has no instructions to speak of. So its hard for new people to use the damn thing.

When doing games I tend to do stuff like limit colonization only to Terran worlds just to keep the economics from getting totally out of hand.

Also use a bunch of other home brew rules like graded leaders and the like.

Might try to run a campaign next year some time.

Michael

Carthaginian · December 12, 2011, 12:11:55 PM

If you start accepting 'teh n00bz,' let me know.
I've got good experience with SVC's tactical games, but have never tried anything strategic. If the rules still follow the 'feel' of his other games, I should be able to pick things up with a degree of ease.

Valles · December 12, 2011, 12:38:23 PM

While I'd still be up for a 3rd Edition Revised game, if I can find my rulebook, I'd prefer Ultra. The 'evolutionary' tech paradigm makes more sense to me, I like not being locked in to The One True Path (as y'all may've noticed already, here!), and it comes stock with both 'economic reduction' features, graded leadership rules, and a variety of interesting optional rules.

Also, Starfire Online is considerably better documented than I remember SA being. I could actually figure out what I was supposed to be doing.

miketr · December 12, 2011, 12:54:59 PM

Quote from: Carthaginian on December 12, 2011, 12:11:55 PM
If you start accepting 'teh n00bz,' let me know.
I've got good experience with SVC's tactical games, but have never tried anything strategic. If the rules still follow the 'feel' of his other games, I should be able to pick things up with a degree of ease.

Big changes between the simple tactical game that Stephen V. Cole first created back in the early 80's and the current system. Also there is the issue of getting a complete copy of the game.

3rd Ed was an update to the tactical combat system only. Sky Marshal II was an electronic Product that overhauled the Economic System from Imperial Starfire. So there were lots of problems but it was very workable. Even though its been like 8 years now I still get pissed when I think about Marvin and Steve blowing things up. The Unified Rules Document was 99% finished. I have my E Copy but I can't do anything with the damn thing of course beyond my small group of friend who all have copies of Imperial Starfire, 3rd Ed Rev and SM2 so we can use the URD as correction as needed.

If you could get a copy of this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starfire-3rd-Edition-Revised-Rule-Book-Task-Force-Games-/260912661977?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cbf9b45d9

and say Sky Marshal II

That would be enough to do it.

There are some webpages out there that have information.

http://18inchfly.net/starfire/index.html

Here is a campaign page of my own from 10 years ago that is still up for some reason. It was also the longest run campaign at 70+ turns.

http://www.speakeasy.org/~mtrohde/starfire/index.html

The forum from the last game I ran that broke down over the summer.

bgb.yuku.com/

Quote from: Valles on December 12, 2011, 12:38:23 PM
While I'd still be up for a 3rd Edition Revised game, if I can find my rulebook, I'd prefer Ultra. The 'evolutionary' tech paradigm makes more sense to me, I like not being locked in to The One True Path (as y'all may've noticed already, here!), and it comes stock with both 'economic reduction' features, graded leadership rules, and a variety of interesting optional rules.

Also, Starfire Online is considerably better documented than I remember SA being. I could actually figure out what I was supposed to be doing.

My problem with Ultra is that it has a very different feel than 3rd, its much more evolutionary in terms of tech dev. Also the game is designed for shorter campaigns I feel with speed up economics. Starfire 3rd is an arms race, get the break through tech. Never played a campaign with Ultra. It landed rather like a lead weight among my group. I don't see me every playing with it to be honest.

Michael