Some Maps

[snip]

Well, I had a bit of time and made Civ IV with this mapscript chew on a few maps. Note that these maps are unmodified in any way from what the mapscript originally turned out. I will tweek later after my temporaty bout of insanity ermm, when my final exams are finished. Also note that I used a third party program to get these images, and any final map would be cleaner and more detailed.

World One

A world that has few deep oceans but lots of shallower seas and naval chokepoints. While most of the main landmass is connected, there are several mountainis areas that would make overland travel all but imposible given the local wildlife.

World Two

A world that has one large ocean, and several smaller ones. Has several distinct continents.

World Three

A world that has many shallower seas in lew of deep oceans. Lots of smaller landmasses.

World Four

A world that has smaller deep oceans, but in greater numbers. Lots of small to medium size landmasses.

Comments?

[Nobody]

Now I remember why I don't like the Civ4 map generator. Would it be possible to have a Civ3 map for comparison?

If any of those than map 2. What is their land/water ratio? I think 20/80 or 15/85 would be good.

[Carthaginian]

Now I remember why I don't like the Civ4 map generator. Would it be possible to have a Civ3 map for comparison?

If any of those than map 2. What is their land/water ratio? I think 20/80 or 15/85 would be good.

Meh- all the Civ map gens have similar problems- they work on rather large units.
It's the Coastline Paradox in action!

It's impossible to get a 'realistic' map out of any kind of generator that isn't in the $10,000 range, because the Coastline Paradox makes the thing look 'clunky.' Unless we get a generator that will measure in the meter-range 1.) the islands will look strange, 2.) things will be 'in the wrong place' 3.) features will be 'out of proportion.'
It's the cheapest, simplest, easiest thing we have to work with- it isn't perfect, but unless you are willing to shell out the money for a fractal generator that is going to consider plate tectonics and small-unit coastline measurements... well, it's what we have to work with!

[snip]

I will also note that in the game view that Civ IV uses, there is less of a tendance to hardline the coasts. As these are simpily a "do we like X sort or Y sort" of map, I did not feel the need, nor have the time, to take the multitude of screenshots and assemble them into one image to get each map in its actually rendered glory. Any final map that I make will have such done to it if it is a Civ map. Civ III graphics are crap compared to IV and I do not at this time have fractal mapscrips for III.

[Carthaginian]

Indeed, Nobody, if he were to post a local map, you'd see that the terrain is detailed enough that you could actually use it to determine bonuses and penalties due to terrain involvement in land battles.

Those are the gross world map- as I said, the coastline paradox kicks in at that scale.
The smaller scale maps are excellent.
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-118.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-115.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-122.jpg
And backing out a little shows good detail, but also general features.
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-107.jpg
http://static.computergames.ro/cg/assassin/images2/civilization4/civilization4-106.jpg

[Jefgte]

I vote for W4 but a mixture of W4 & W2 is probably the better choice.

IMO, closed seas must be small.

- I remember to have play at school with similar map for Naval Action, that was 40 years ago  ::)  on a  paper map.
Destroyers with 2 guns - light cruisers with 3 guns - heavy cruisers with 4 guns - BC with 5 guns - BB with 6 to 8 guns.
At this time, I was young & slim...  ::)

Jef

[Nobody]

You both got me wrong, sorry that I was imprecise (in fact I didn't say anything at all).

I don't mid a map made of blocks, an unrealistic look nor do I care about plate tectonics.

What I don't like about the Civ4 map generator is that they deliberate shrank the maps so simplify the game and most importantly that the map generator seems to ignore what I tell him. I'm also in favor of the isometric view of Civ2 & 3.

Carth, are you suggesting to use zoomed in maps for special purposes? That sounds interesting.

[Carthaginian]

Carth, are you suggesting to use zoomed in maps for special purposes? That sounds interesting.

Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned. It will take a little while and be damn big when we're done, but it'll work.

[Nobody]

Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned.

I did not say that, in fact I like map two - I just think there isn't enough water, hence my question - , and I don't need a highly detailed map either. All you usually need is one that fits onto your screen and gives you an overview.
And no it wouldn't cure any of the problems I have with the civ4 map generator.

[Jefgte]

This kind of map, more realist



With details like forest, mountains...



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

How draw this kind of map? With Paint

Jef

[Jefgte]

Testing a paint map for 10 players...




Jef

[Jefgte]

...With grid for the distance calculation.




Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Jef

[Carthaginian]

Not only am I suggesting just that, but also that most of the 'shrinkage' problem that you have can simply be cured by taking small, measured screenshots of the map and then mounting them together, making a large map complete with all the details that you want. Setting the world on the largest setting and then piecing the large map together will fix virtually all the problems that you have mentioned.

I did not say that, in fact I like map two - I just think there isn't enough water, hence my question - , and I don't need a highly detailed map either. All you usually need is one that fits onto your screen and gives you an overview.
And no it wouldn't cure any of the problems I have with the civ4 map generator.

AH... now I get it. The we need to look at how we intend to scale things, Nobody- as in how big is each square? We might eventually allow a square to be more than a square mile. They might be 10 sq. mi. or even 100 sq. mi. depending on our needs. The 'local map' given by zooming in would still also be useful for things like attacking cities (which I also thought about), just that we might have to imagine 4-5 mountains in an area where only one is visually.

This kind of map, more realist

How draw this kind of map? With Paint

Jef

Jef,
Drawing those maps takes more sweat and tears than any of us are willing to put in ATM! I don't know anyone that is good enough to make a map like that- more realistic or not.

[snip]

Jef, also note that:

Also note that I used a third party program to get these images, and any final map would be cleaner and more detailed.

I have no intent for these to be final maps, just seeing what layouts people like best before I put in the necessary time to assemble a full map. Since I have the settings used saved, I can easly create more examples of a given world for more layouts.

[Valles]

My own vote went to Map Four, because it had the largest range of landmass sizes - it possessed both one or two real continents of Earthlike scale if not configuration and a generous scattering of sizable islands.

Since I'm hoping to create a power that will be expanding on land rather than overseas, the general configuration of the oceans isn't particularly a big deal to me; I'll play the ball wherever it lays.

(Although I note that extensive shallow seas would be good for overall biomass and 'interesting' weather patterns, should those be desired.)