NewWorld Infantry Rifle!

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 02:39:37 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=kFYXTH7Gdhk#!
http://www.indianashooter.com/centerfire-rifles/8891-700-wtf-handmade-rifle.html

The perfect 'light infantry rifle' for our new fictional 'Deathworld.' ;)
This is a .50 BMG cart cut down to a 3" length and necked slightly to handle a .70 caliber, almost 1200 grain AP bullet! The 'mild' initial loads are able to pierce 1/4" of steel... and the gent plans to begin tweaking the weapon to find the upper limits soon. That is, nearest I can tell, a Freedom Arms 5 shot revolver in aprox. .45 caliber in the comparison pic, and the cart is NOT the victim of any photoshoping or creative telephoto work... it's an honest size comparison. 8)

Nobody · December 03, 2011, 03:06:35 PM

It does not appear to be much different from a .700 NE though, does it? Apart from the fact that it is rimless and probably has a much higher working pressure.

Anyway, interesting find.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 03:25:03 PM

Quote from: Nobody on December 03, 2011, 03:06:35 PM
It does not appear to be much different from a .700 NE though, does it? Apart from the fact that it is rimless and probably has a much higher working pressure.

Anyway, interesting find.

Well, the difference is that the average case thickness is 0.02" thicker on the .70 WTF, and the upper limit on the pressure the case can handle handle without separation hasn't been found. The numbers that he's publishing now aren't the final ones; this cart will probably beat the pants off a .700 NE when it's finally pushed to the limit. I doubt very seriously the cart will really take off as there is not a really big demand for mega-carts in this world, but it'll probably be the most powerful for a week or two- when some poor dumbass decides to pull a similar stunt with a 20mm. case!

Delta Force · December 03, 2011, 03:33:14 PM

The bullet itself is three times heavier than an entire 7.62mm cartridge. You are also not going to be able to control a .700 on fully automatic. I think that something like the M-14 or another battle rifle would probably be standard issue, with heavy rifles like the .700 being used against very large creatures.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 03:55:15 PM

Quote from: Delta Force on December 03, 2011, 03:33:14 PM
The bullet itself is three times heavier than an entire 7.62mm cartridge. You are also not going to be able to control a .700 on fully automatic. I think that something like the M-14 or another battle rifle would probably be standard issue, with heavy rifles like the .700 being used against very large creatures.

Delta,
Uhm... I'm VERY well aware of that- having been a SAW gunner, .50 BMG gunner, and 8 time expert on the M-16 and M9. I am also very much aware of the practical limitations of a weapon with a shell-holder bolt.

What you must not be aware of is the fact that ALMOST NO BATTLE RIFLE is 'rock and roll' anymore... I miss my old GM Hydromatic A1 with the 5 digit serial number, but those days are long gone. Modern battle rifles are generally 'burst' models; full auto is- with most troops, excepting those who REALLY know what they are doing- a spectacular wast of ammunition and very little else.

Also, a .308 on full auto is nigh on uncontrollable by all but the most powerful man.
A .223 is pretty stout, but anyone with a bit of size on him can manage that one.

Darman · December 03, 2011, 05:40:54 PM

I was actually thinking that something more along the lines of flamethrowers would be the most-used weapon. Flamethrowers and something to put the flames out so the infantry can move in and the engineers drive their bulldozers in and clear out the charred remains and all the topsoil so they can build on sanitized ground.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 05:56:38 PM

Quote from: Darman on December 03, 2011, 05:40:54 PM
I was actually thinking that something more along the lines of flamethrowers would be the most-used weapon. Flamethrowers and something to put the flames out so the infantry can move in and the engineers drive their bulldozers in and clear out the charred remains and all the topsoil so they can build on sanitized ground.

Flamethrowers aren't ideal for attacks... they might look cool, but they actually take a good long time to be extremely useful under most conditions. You have to be able to hold them on target and keep pouting the fuel to them to get results. A rifle would be much better for most jobs.
Now, for sanitizing a 'cleared' area, the flamethrower is, was, and will always be the king!

Darman · December 03, 2011, 05:59:59 PM

I guess I was more referring to the battle against the land rather than against people.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 06:05:17 PM

Quote from: Darman on December 03, 2011, 05:59:59 PM
I guess I was more referring to the battle against the land rather than against people.

Me too, in a way- the actual critters need to be killed with guns... but the land needs to be killed with fire.

Darman · December 03, 2011, 06:11:36 PM

Quote from: Carthaginian on December 03, 2011, 06:05:17 PMbut the land needs to be killed with fire.

True. I forgot about the creatures.

Valles · December 03, 2011, 09:57:21 PM

I hadn't considered the likely presence of 'large carnosaurs' in my own planning, but now that it's been brought up, you're right.
Some kind of 'large game' gun will be needed, though I'm not really qualified to guess what it would be.

I would suspect, though, that 'Bush Troops' would also tend to bring along shorter-range weapons like heavy shotguns - I'd figured an 8 gauge and a flamer per fire-team, with the other two troopers involved carrying long guns. I just need to revise my ideas of what a 'long gun' is upwards.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 10:13:09 PM

Valles- as you and I got to talking about the various 'terror birds vs. aircraft,' I started thinking about an entire planet that was based around avian apex predators.

This guy right here, he'd be the top land predator:

Phorusrhacidae Titanis
10 feet tall, 500 pounds, and able to run 25+ MPH over fairly long distances.
This would be the proverbial 'grizzly bear' of NewWorld.
His smaller relatives would comprise the top land predators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phorusrhacidae) while Argentavis and his friends would be the largest flying predators. Avians of all sizes and shapes would soar through the skies and roam the lands. I also envisioned more reptiles on land than mammals... if only to make the world seem more alien to our eyes.

Personally, I wouldn't think of 8 gauge shotguns- a 10 gauge is bad enough!
I'd say that the average light infantrymen carry a medium bore combat rifle- .30 caliber or so- and gunners have a belt fed weapon of similar caliber. One or two men in the squad might carry a 12 gauge 3 & 1/2" magnum shotgun (the largest easily handled by a man firing at anything approaching 'rapid fire'), but anything bigger than that and you may as well start carrying a semi-auto .50 caliber rifle- the recoil is comparable to 3 & 1/2" magnum.

EDIT: The shotgun, working at much lower chamber pressures, is FAR lighter and more manageable!
If a 12 gauge 3 & 1/2" slug can't kill it, you don't need a gun, you need a priest.

Valles · December 03, 2011, 10:35:20 PM

...I wouldn't intend to so closely parallel Terrestrial evolution. Perhaps some form of walking carnivorous landsquid, or something stranger.

I'll noodle some possible 'families' over and see.

Carthaginian · December 03, 2011, 10:51:26 PM

The 'land squid' idea is really interesting... though it calls to mind to many perverted scenes from too many of my wife's animes. ;) FEMALE SOLDIERS BEWARE! :P

Invertebrates becoming apex predators on land would be a bit far-fetched... anything approaching Earth gravity would make it extremely difficult for them to hunt successfully. Their own weight would hinder them to such a degree that they would become almost totally ineffective.

Insects would suffer similar problems. If they were large enough to pose a direct threat to humans, then they would wind up with exoskeletons that were too heavy for their muscles to lift! We could see some fairly large flying insects- like Meganeura- but nothing that could be an apex predator.

Avian species were just the 'unexplored possibility' of the animal kingdom- we all are too familiar with dinosaurs, and mammals dominate now.

Valles · December 03, 2011, 11:25:10 PM

I'm thinking of other options, actually. For instance, consider the 'armored vertebrate' design plan-form - tortoises and so forth. They're effectively exoskeletal, right? Armadillos, at least, are pretty quick, too. So, picture a 'bug analog' - an entire group of pseudoarthropods that've 'learned' to back chitin shells with a bone honeycomb for strength. The 'weight limit' would probably still be lower than a classic vertebrate, but it wouldn't be exactly small anymore either, I don't think.

As for the squid, the real-world kind have bones - a bone - already. A central 'spindle' that the rest of their body is anchored to. Reinforce the sucker structures into horn or bone plates, and you end up with a (very) many jointed limb - so, ultimately, the critter in question has a kind of vertical cone shaped body with a large number of spider-like legs distributed around the bottom. Turning the planform into something alarmingly large would require modifications, but no more, really, than those separating a mouse from an elephant.