Economics (enter at own risk)

[The Rock Doctor]

So here's the assumption:

-Y'all are starting out small.  There will be somewhat more NPC amalgamation/annexation/conquest than N3.

-Naval Construction:  ~$16 in a four month turn.  Ships translate into 2x25,000, 2x10,000, 8x2,000, and 2x2,000 auxiliaries

-Naval Upkeep:  ~$5, which is 120,000 t mobilized at 4% per turn.

-Yard & Port Upkeep:  ~$3, based on a reasonable starting set and the prices I've currently got

-Army Buying and Upkeep:  ~$2, given a relatively small troop base

So that's $26.  Figure $30 or $40 per turn, so $90 or $120 per year.  At 3%, that's $3000 to $4000 per year income.

[miketr]

3% growth would be a tad low in my opinion. That is the growth rate for developed economies, which have large infrastructure and industrial bases so it is hard to roll out new technology quickly. Developed economies also tend to already have good or excellent infrastructure and industry so it is more difficult to improve on. It is hard to improve the efficiency of something that is already efficient, you usually end up with diminishing returns (computing being one major example of things becoming less expensive and more powerful at the same time). If you already know how technology plays out (as a developing country or someone with access to "future" information), you do not have to spend time developing technologies that seemed good at the time but that did not pan out (like flywheel cars and prop/jet engine aircraft hybrids). However, you also do not have sunk costs, so technologies that looked like a dead end but that are useful with improved technologies (like airships and modular rockets) could be developed too.

I think that 6% or higher economic growth is reasonable until the information on "future" technology, management techniques, and processes becomes closer and closer. Once that happens you have to spend more money on less certain and more expensive research, so improvements will slow down. Developing nations tend to achieve growth rates around 6% by taking advantage of the ideas and technologies that have been proven by developed nations, gaining the benefits of lower cost and rapid implementation. Some developing nations have much better telecommunications systems than the United States, for example, because they skip straight to the latest developments instead of having to go through and develop and construct all the levels of technology that came before.

6% growth rate the doubling time is just too high.  Your economy doubles in 12 years.

Michael

[miketr]

So here's the assumption:

-Y'all are starting out small.  There will be somewhat more NPC amalgamation/annexation/conquest than N3.

-Naval Construction:  ~$16 in a four month turn.  Ships translate into 2x25,000, 2x10,000, 8x2,000, and 2x2,000 auxiliaries

-Naval Upkeep:  ~$5, which is 120,000 t mobilized at 4% per turn.

-Yard & Port Upkeep:  ~$3, based on a reasonable starting set and the prices I've currently got

-Army Buying and Upkeep:  ~$2, given a relatively small troop base

So that's $26.  Figure $30 or $40 per turn, so $90 or $120 per year.  At 3%, that's $3000 to $4000 per year income.

Economics are to be quarterly?

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

Ah, three turns a year is the current model.  Tax level setting and economic growth only done at the start of the year.

[Darman]

I like the idea of setting the tax level at the start of the year and not being able to change it.  It means you cant predict peace for a semester and set your tax rate at the lowest rate to encourage growth and then as soon as war threatens you raise your rates.  When you are stuck with the tax level you set at the beginning of the year you are forced to spend money you don't have, with a 10% interest or something like that.  I think an interest payment was mentioned earlier.

[The Rock Doctor]

Yeah, I'm still thinking about the interest thing.

[miketr]

Yeah, I'm still thinking about the interest thing.

I favor the 10% interest rate for short term borrowing myself.

Michael

[miketr]

So here's the assumption:

-Naval Construction:  ~$16 in a four month turn.  Ships translate into 2x25,000, 2x10,000, 8x2,000, and 2x2,000 auxiliaries

So you are assuming 500 tons per month goes into a ship then?  So max per year is 6,000 tons of work? 

16 * 3 (4 month turns ) = $48 a year (just want to be clear on the numbers)

-Naval Upkeep:  ~$5, which is 120,000 t mobilized at 4% per turn.

I would suggest a higher upkeep cost, I know 4% / 2% / 0.4% is what we did in N3 but we (me, p3d and Guinness) really thought in the N4 economic talks that higher rates where need.  We settled on 10% / 5% / 1% costs.  Something to think about is all.  Higher upkeep costs are more of a break on fleet growth.  As you need to spend more to keep what you have.

I don't know what other people want or feel.  Everything I have read with real world says over life time of ships (modern ones) many times more is spent on keeping them active than to build them.

-Yard & Port Upkeep:  ~$3, based on a reasonable starting set and the prices I've currently got

Details yet?

So that's $26.  Figure $30 or $40 per turn, so $90 or $120 per year.  At 3%, that's $3000 to $4000 per year income.

Sounds fine to start.  Once you have firm numbers the can be looked over again to get a final value.

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

I'll post my shipbuilding thoughts separately - sufficed to say, I'm proposing to tweek the existing system somewhat.

On upkeep:  that's 4%/2%/0.5% per four month turn, or 12%/6%/1.5% per year.  N3 worked out to 10%/5%/1% annually.  I'm not adverse to something higher - 6/3/1, etc. 

[miketr]

Totally forgot the turn lengths issues.  My bad.

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

No worries - that being the case, what do you think of the numbers I've got?