Work with me here...

[Nobody]

-Have an idea about "resources" to throw out at y'all.  We talked about commodities, and it seemed like our cities actually have many of the essentials covered:  Food, fuel, etc.  So how could we assign a little flavor/niche value to specific cities?  Each gets a special industrial unit that produces stuff in addition to those aforementioned essentials, such as:

-->Steelworks:  Would produce X amount of steel for shipbuilding.  Lose your steelworks(s) and you can't build.
-->Boutiques:  Produces niche consumer goods - nice clothes, books, jewellery - that are the basis for international trade.
-->Dirt Farm:  Produces a terrestrial-friendly soil that is used to help terraform land.
-->Construction Centre:  Specializes in building stand-alone shipyards, ports, cities, and such away from existing cities. 

I figure a half-dozen or so options would let a player inject a bit of flavor into their economy, while quantifying things like one's ability to colonize distant locations, etc.  Whatcha think?

I don't think that would help the "keep it simple" game mechanics at all. It a bit like the N2 system, but with half a dozened additional columns.

If we track resources, than I think Coal, Oil, Iron, maybe Aluminum and Copper (could be all Metal though, or 2 of 3 could be sufficient) and "Excess Biomass", which can replace coal (charcoal) or oil (with microbes or a special factory), would be my choice.


By the way: We all seem to agree that on this hostile world humans can only live in special fortified and rather large cities, which also have direct access to the sea, right? Is anyone else reminded of civ as well?
That being said, we could track the cities themselves rather than the territory, couldn't we?

[Valles]

I suspect that there will end up being two ways to produce foodstuffs and/or biomass - greenhouses in cities, and growing crops on 'sanitized' land. The latter are required for 'industrial' fuel production - greenhouses just can't manage the necessary volume.

Or possibly the difference will also end up being a fluff matter - so many acres of cleared land produce so much and cost so and so to keep sanitized, while a greenhouse of however many square meters produces the same amount and costs the same in structural maintenance.

In general, I seem to be one of the players more willing to tolerate complex systems and less willing to tolerate restriction of player choices, and I'm used to keeping track of those kinds of requirements and bonuses from playing Total War, so the resource system sounds good to me.

[Carthaginian]

Resource System sounds fun... adds some complexity, but not too much.
I think that the city types might best be left to fluff- they just kind of specialize in what is nearby. If the city is near a deposit of iron, it's probably not gonna be specializing in a lot of farming. A city with no minerals nearby will likely be a farming/biomass center.

Also- another thought on the semi-submersible platforms: just sim them as an unpowered barge in SS, with, say, 20% of their tonnage devoted to anchoring systems. I'm going to be looking through the interwebs for the next few days to see if I can find any statistics on precisely how they are built, but I think an SWAG might be good enough.

[The Rock Doctor]

-Have an idea about "resources" to throw out at y'all.  We talked about commodities, and it seemed like our cities actually have many of the essentials covered:  Food, fuel, etc.  So how could we assign a little flavor/niche value to specific cities?  Each gets a special industrial unit that produces stuff in addition to those aforementioned essentials, such as:

-->Steelworks:  Would produce X amount of steel for shipbuilding.  Lose your steelworks(s) and you can't build.
-->Boutiques:  Produces niche consumer goods - nice clothes, books, jewellery - that are the basis for international trade.
-->Dirt Farm:  Produces a terrestrial-friendly soil that is used to help terraform land.
-->Construction Centre:  Specializes in building stand-alone shipyards, ports, cities, and such away from existing cities. 

I figure a half-dozen or so options would let a player inject a bit of flavor into their economy, while quantifying things like one's ability to colonize distant locations, etc.  Whatcha think?

I don't think that would help the "keep it simple" game mechanics at all. It a bit like the N2 system, but with half a dozened additional columns.

If we track resources, than I think Coal, Oil, Iron, maybe Aluminum and Copper (could be all Metal though, or 2 of 3 could be sufficient) and "Excess Biomass", which can replace coal (charcoal) or oil (with microbes or a special factory), would be my choice.


By the way: We all seem to agree that on this hostile world humans can only live in special fortified and rather large cities, which also have direct access to the sea, right? Is anyone else reminded of civ as well?
That being said, we could track the cities themselves rather than the territory, couldn't we?

It would be more complex, though I don't think it would be any more complex than tracking resources. 

Agreed - "territory" is set of small circles on a map, consisting of cities and some sort of exclusive zone around them.

[snip]

if that process is used, then Civ itself could be used to do the map in its entierty

[miketr]

Mike, can you send me a link or a copy of that Starfire doc?  It had some good stuff on international relations and espionage that I'd like to look at and perhaps borrow from.

Signed an NDA, sorry :( 

Try to see if you can get a copy of SkyMarshal 2 or something as an e-copy it had updated diplomatic.  Most of which was to go into URD.

http://www.starfiredesign.com/

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

*Behaves like a petulant child*

This would be much easier if I could just find my own copy of the rules.  I've got the box, the counters, the maps...just the rules are on walkabout somewhere.

[miketr]

-Have an idea about "resources" to throw out at y'all.  We talked about commodities, and it seemed like our cities actually have many of the essentials covered:  Food, fuel, etc.  So how could we assign a little flavor/niche value to specific cities?  Each gets a special industrial unit that produces stuff in addition to those aforementioned essentials, such as:

-->Steelworks:  Would produce X amount of steel for shipbuilding.  Lose your steelworks(s) and you can't build.
-->Boutiques:  Produces niche consumer goods - nice clothes, books, jewellery - that are the basis for international trade.
-->Dirt Farm:  Produces a terrestrial-friendly soil that is used to help terraform land.
-->Construction Centre:  Specializes in building stand-alone shipyards, ports, cities, and such away from existing cities. 

I figure a half-dozen or so options would let a player inject a bit of flavor into their economy, while quantifying things like one's ability to colonize distant locations, etc.  Whatcha think?

Hmmm.... Hmmmm...  I don't know.  I am afraid this could get out of hand quickly.

Also tracking raw materials kills most of the advantages of having a GDP economic system.

So what do you want the economics to do?  What is the base way to build things in the game and how does this system help with that? 

Michael

[miketr]

*Behaves like a petulant child*

This would be much easier if I could just find my own copy of the rules.  I've got the box, the counters, the maps...just the rules are on walkabout somewhere.

I checked my copy of Sky-Marshall 2 and it has updated diplomatic rules its 13 pages long.  SM2 SHOULD be in the legacy product package for $10 US.

Michael

[The Rock Doctor]

-Have an idea about "resources" to throw out at y'all.  We talked about commodities, and it seemed like our cities actually have many of the essentials covered:  Food, fuel, etc.  So how could we assign a little flavor/niche value to specific cities?  Each gets a special industrial unit that produces stuff in addition to those aforementioned essentials, such as:

-->Steelworks:  Would produce X amount of steel for shipbuilding.  Lose your steelworks(s) and you can't build.
-->Boutiques:  Produces niche consumer goods - nice clothes, books, jewellery - that are the basis for international trade.
-->Dirt Farm:  Produces a terrestrial-friendly soil that is used to help terraform land.
-->Construction Centre:  Specializes in building stand-alone shipyards, ports, cities, and such away from existing cities. 

I figure a half-dozen or so options would let a player inject a bit of flavor into their economy, while quantifying things like one's ability to colonize distant locations, etc.  Whatcha think?

Hmmm.... Hmmmm...  I don't know.  I am afraid this could get out of hand quickly.

Also tracking raw materials kills most of the advantages of having a GDP economic system.

So what do you want the economics to do?  What is the base way to build things in the game and how does this system help with that? 

Michael

Economics should support the construction and maintenance of militaries.  Stuff is purchased and maintained with cash.

The notion of these industrial things, and related talk about terraforming, is to provide some flavor that explains why nations will fight, and what their strategies may accomplish. 

[Nobody]

I was surprised to hear in the news that "a second earth" had be found and I thought if it could be "our" world.
Take a look: Kepler-22b
What do you think, or is its bigger size too much of a problem (a too high gravity would render SS useless)?

[Carthaginian]

High gravity and assumed atmospheric density would make it a bit hostile for us.
I think they are more excited that it could support another intelligent life form, rather than that it could be anything (even with FTL drive) that humanity could easily use.

I'm excited... we're getting to the point that we can see Earth-sized objects now.
Our biggest problem is that most of the free world is hostile to manned exploration, and thus no work is being done on improving drive technologies. With a ship that could get to 50%c, travel to nearby systems (20ly or so) could be done in a single lifetime... meaning that colonization would be possible!

[Delta Force]

Not that we should necessarily do this, but you could divide the production of components for the ships and other military goods up as something of a resource. For example, ships could have components from steel mills (structural members, armored plates, and turrets), gun forges (large artillery pieces), and boiler/engine works. Certain cities/countries could specialize in certain areas, so one city might make the best armament (like Krupp) and another might make more powerful engines (like Parsons). Some facilities could produce special equipment too. For example, an engine factory could produce nuclear reactors.

A somewhat similar process could be used with aircraft, either using existing structures or special ones set aside for aircraft. Obviously they would use aluminum factories and propeller engine factories. Over time the factories could produce pulsejets and jet engines to power aircraft and rockets.

Ground forces (tanks) could use naval armor and naval gun factories (they use steel armor and big guns) and aircraft engine factories (being smaller engines).

General industries would be ore mines (iron/coal and rare), oil refineries and wells, and munitions factories (making all kinds of munitions, from 16 inch naval shells to torpedoes).

Everything could run on the basic resources of steel, rare materials (aluminum and copper), petroleum, fuel (representing lighter fuel grades, for game purposes warships can use crude) and petrochemicals (includes rubber, which can be grown or refined from oil, along with plastics). Food might be included, unless it is produced in hydroponic food towers or something.

Having resources can provide more strategy to the game. If someone starts stockpiling large amounts of oil it may be a sign they are preparing for war, for example. It also adds a degree of differentiation, as you can choose to have an advanced aircraft engine industry or naval gun industry and export them to others.

[The Rock Doctor]

I'll be quiet the next day or two - dealing with a flooded cellar.

[Carthaginian]

I like this idea, Rock... sorry it took so long to comment.

Building 'special' equipment make a great role-playing opportunity, and could drive a nice trade in weapons and armament. I say a special facility- perhaps even limited to one per 'empire'- could be built, and designated to allow for a superior product in an area: naval propulsion, naval guns, aircraft, land vehicles. These would be traded, sold, used as bribes, etc.

Also, we might need to allow for several NPC's who are also specialized, in order to give them a greater chance of survival (and to prepare spots for any future players). They could actively be courted, negotiated with and paid for their special equipment.