Tech Establishments (final comments)

[miketr]

I wanted to use Big Gun as the program to creat tables but there wasn't much interest in this for whatever reason.

Michael

[Carthaginian]

I'd EASILY go for BigGun... IF it would run on Windows 7.

What about everyone else?

[TexanCowboy]

Nobody's program has the most consistant results out of any that I've seen.


BigGun should run on Windows, Carth, if it can run on my Vista program. Just download the executable.

Ct, what does it matter if I can nab Jamacia and concentrate my entire fleet opposing you, while you have to split your fleet between the North Atlantic and Cuba? Besides, I thought we were to have at least bearable relations...not horrendous because, you know, not really descended from your nation...

[Korpen]

I wanted to use Big Gun as the program to creat tables but there wasn't much interest in this for whatever reason.

Michael

Because BigGun seems to produce very optimistic results. I much prefer NaAB for making tables.

On the guns tech: Would it be possible to include the muzzle energy in the table? That way we do not need to bother someone with a second squared foot (did someone cut of his/her toes?)

[Carthaginian]

BigGun should run on Windows, Carth, if it can run on my Vista program. Just download the executable.

Uhm... I HAVE the .exe file, TC.
Windows 7 doesn't work with some older things; BigGun is one of them.
I've had to give up many of my favorite old games (or rather, had to get DOSBox) because of the way that Windows 7 has a slightly different way of looking for files (from what I can see in the exception warnings).


Korpen,

BigGun is simple, NaAb isn't... that's about the best way to describe it.
We can put in exact figures for muzzle velocity, diameter and caliber- the very things that all the charts that have been produced are designed to do. If there are 'optimistic penetration values' then we can solve that one of two ways:
1.) realize that- as with Springsharp- we all face the same F-ed up math and deal with it.
2.) 'handicap' the values BigGun produces by, say, 10%.

It's still FAR simpler than that other program.

Or, if Nobody's program were refined a bit more, I'd like to use it.

[Nobody]

Because BigGun seems to produce very optimistic results. I much prefer NaAB for making tables.

I agree, from what I remember BigGun produces extreme results and way too much deck penetration.

On the guns tech: Would it be possible to include the muzzle energy in the table? That way we do not need to bother someone with a second squared foot (did someone cut of his/her toes?)

Believe it or not, but that strange unit is how energy is measured in imperial units. Remember 1 Jule = 1 N*m = 1 kg*m²/s².

BigGun is written for DOS, right? It should run on any Windows - as long as it is not a 64-Bit version. In which case you will need something like DosBox.

Or, if Nobody's program were refined a bit more, I'd like to use it.

What do you want? Say something and I will see what I can do. Anyway, usage would be much simpler if there were rules it could follow. As long as that is not the case, it gives the user the responsibility for every single value.

[Carthaginian]

Or, if Nobody's program were refined a bit more, I'd like to use it.

What do you want? Say something and I will see what I can do. Anyway, usage would be much simpler if there were rules it could follow. As long as that is not the case, it gives the user the responsibility for every single value.

LOL... as soon as the rules are written, I'll let you know. ;)
Basically, that's what I was saying- your program works well and everyone seems to like it. The only thing we lack is the gun rules, then you'd be able to put the appropriate 'input info here' boxes into the program and it would spit out info on a gun that would comply with the rules. ;D


As for BigGun- you hit the nail on the head... my 64bit Win7 does not like it.
But, if it'll run under DosBox, then I'll just drop it in there along with Aces of the Deep and Red Storm Rising. :D

[TexanCowboy]

Should be able to run a "Run under XP specifications" command through the computer.

[miketr]

NaAB is WAY too complex of a program.  Also big gun in terms of is shell weights lines up perfectly with SpringSharp.  Which is to be expected.

Michael

[Sachmle]

BigGun works fine in DosBox, and it does not work in Win7-64bit even in compatibility mode for XP.

[Nobody]

NaAB is WAY too complex of a program.  Also big gun in terms of is shell weights lines up perfectly with SpringSharp.  Which is to be expected.

NaAB is a collection of old versions of all of Nathan Okun's programs plus some extras and a nice GUI. So, is it simple? No, but way easier to use than the programs it is based on.

Shell weight... that is only adequate for some weaker guns of 150 to 155 mm caliber. I have a nice graphic about that - I think I'll post later.

[miketr]

NaAB is WAY too complex of a program.  Also big gun in terms of is shell weights lines up perfectly with SpringSharp.  Which is to be expected.

NaAB is a collection of old versions of all of Nathan Okun's programs plus some extras and a nice GUI. So, is it simple? No, but way easier to use than the programs it is based on.

Shell weight... that is only adequate for some weaker guns of 150 to 155 mm caliber. I have a nice graphic about that - I think I'll post later.

I have tried the program several times, too many variables.  Some times close enough is just that.  Gold plated solutions are really not needed.  Biggest issue against BigGun people mentioned is deck penetration, thats not an issue for how many years in game?

Michael

[Nobody]

I have tried the program several times, too many variables.  Some times close enough is just that.  Gold plated solutions are really not needed.  Biggest issue against BigGun people mentioned is deck penetration, thats not an issue for how many years in game?

Funny thing is, it is. I just read an article from the 1880s which criticized certain guns and/or armament layouts for "not allowing the guns to depress enough which leads to poor deck penetration and no plunging fire"!

There is something else though, apart from overestimating deck penetration (afaik it gives Bismarck a deck penetration of 10"+ instead of barely 5"), belt penetration decreases to fast. But I fear the problem might be present in the "F-Formula" as well, even if of a smaller scale.

[miketr]

No solution is perfect, as long as the problems effect everyone the same way its workable enough.

Michael

[Jefgte]

Well Modos, or Mods Team(like you wrote)

We all have discusions about much & much subjects & rules since the restart & the move to N4
We have pieces of rules everywhere in much topics

Is it possible now to start the topic.
"RULES"
(Modos update this locked topic).

Again, Modos, Thanks alot for your work & time.


Jef  ;)