Spanish Navy

[Logi]

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/frameset6.html
Funny, this French battleship 'of the same period' looks NOTHING LIKE your ship- though the Hoche of 9 years later does have two calibers of heavy gun in barbettes.

1) The French Devastation class has a similar look. Intermediate guns in the middle with free firing arcs, small caliber guns underneath in casemates. The main batteries are at the ends.
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/redoutable.html

2) I do not have two calibers of heavy guns in barbettes. Only one caliber has a turret - that is the 12"/20 twins. The 8"/25s are only a deck mount (if you looked in the SS3 report). Even in the model, the gun is only on a swivel plate and the ring around it is just there for artisitc flair. The only thing out of place is that fact that it has a gun shield.

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/frameset4.htm
This U.S.N. Battleship, including armament and layout of turrets, is the closest things I can find to your ship... the Indiana class was launched in 1895.

1) See point 2

2) Both the Devastation class and the Téméraire class have similar arrangement and armament. I had a few other examples but the site ate up my post.
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/hms_cbs.html

[Logi]

Re: Jeftge

It would be nice if I could, unfortunately the Spanish Navy (and by extension the Portuguese Navy) did not build much of any ships in this period. In reality, the economic decline of the Iberian peninsular also prevented any real naval shipbuilding. - Not reflected in N4, however, else Iberia would bring nothing and have to hire contractors to build it's ships.

As a result, as much as I would like to design based on Spanish ships of the period, there really isn't much of anything to go by.

---

As it stands it's much more likely that the IAB will build something like this than the three twin Gloria being discussed. Whilst (as I double-checked the broadside weight per side), the previous version still stands a more efficient vessel for ton-by-ton broadside weight, that's not a factor so important within the IAB design requirements.

I would much rather adopt this version which includes a sailing rig (brigantine) and is not only faster on steam, but a smaller boat as well.

And before anyone rings the alarm bells, this is pretty much the same layout and the same ratio of guns as the Téméraire class.

IAB Gloria, Iberia Battleship laid down 1877
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   5,681 t light; 6,095 t standard; 6,400 t normal; 6,644 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (270.00 ft / 270.00 ft) x 48.00 ft x (28.00 / 28.89 ft)
   (82.30 m / 82.30 m) x 14.63 m  x (8.53 / 8.80 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 20.0 cal guns - 700.00lbs / 317.51kg shells, 60 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1877 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 25.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 90 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 30.0 cal guns - 42.00lbs / 19.05kg shells, 600 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,736 lbs / 2,148 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 15.0" / 381 mm, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m torpedoes - 0.128 t each, 0.512 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.30" / 160 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,374 ihp / 4,009 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 550 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   357 - 465

Cost:
   £0.496 million / $1.986 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 375 tons, 5.9 %
      - Guns: 375 tons, 5.9 %
      - Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 1,904 tons, 29.8 %
      - Belts: 1,199 tons, 18.7 %
      - Armament: 479 tons, 7.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 180 tons, 2.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 1,160 tons, 18.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,917 tons, 29.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 719 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 325 tons, 5.1 %
      - Hull below water: 260 tons
      - Above deck: 65 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,417 lbs / 2,003 Kg = 6.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 11.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, rise aft of midbreak,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.617 / 0.621
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.63 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -22.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13.00 %,  15.00 ft / 4.57 m,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m
      - Forward deck:   38.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Quarter deck:   11.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      8.94 ft / 2.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 86.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 42.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,633 Square feet or 895 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 660 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 3.91
      - Overall: 1.10
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Carthaginian]

I wouldn't say that muzzle-loading 8" guns are necessary... breech-loaders would work fine.
Other than that, it seems to be a damn fine ship.

[Jefgte]

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (270.00 ft / 270.00 ft) x 48.00 ft x (28.00 / 28.89 ft)
   (82.30 m / 82.30 m) x 14.63 m  x (8.53 / 8.80 m)
--------
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19 
Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 13.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
  Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Recoil is high & stability is higher for this kind of ship.

Increase beam & reduce draught inf to 8m.

You could add some light QF guns too.

Jef

[snip]

No reason to add QF at this point in time. I dont think that TBs have been around long enough, if at all, to be labeled a serious weapon.

[Jefgte]

...No reason to add QF at this point in time...

QF are not install vs TBs but for short range battle.

Jef

[Sachmle]

That's what the 8" and 4.7" are for Jean-Francois, no need for even smaller guns. The 4.7" are even of doubtful utility depending on the armor scheme of the opposing ship. Maybe wreck the bridge and hole the stacks, but if they have a MB/UB/EB set-up those 4.7" guns won't HURT anything.

[Logi]

Slightly wider beam - shorter draught. Recoil lowered and stability (when possible) lowered.

Been tinkering with the speed switch from 14 kts to 15 kts. Atm, I'm of the opinion that i's better to go 14 kts than 15 kts. The composite strength drained by the 1 kt difference is too much to stomach.

Currently considering whether to up displacement to increase protection or keep armor at it's level to lower weight. Feedback on which of the two you like better would be appreciated.


Up-armored - for 200~300 tons, UB and FC can be increased to 10".

IAB Gloria, Iberia Battleship laid down 1877
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   5,464 t light; 5,901 t standard; 6,200 t normal; 6,439 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (270.00 ft / 270.00 ft) x 49.00 ft x (26.50 / 27.35 ft)
   (82.30 m / 82.30 m) x 14.94 m  x (8.08 / 8.34 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 20.0 cal guns - 700.00lbs / 317.51kg shells, 60 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1877 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 25.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 4.70" / 119 mm 30.0 cal guns - 42.00lbs / 19.05kg shells, 600 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,820 lbs / 2,186 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 15.0" / 381 mm, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m torpedoes - 0.128 t each, 0.512 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   3.00 ft / 0.91 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.88" / 175 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,040 ihp / 3,014 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 538 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   349 - 454

Cost:
   £0.451 million / $1.805 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 390 tons, 6.3 %
      - Guns: 389 tons, 6.3 %
      - Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 2,056 tons, 33.2 %
      - Belts: 1,379 tons, 22.2 %
      - Armament: 444 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 184 tons, 3.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 50 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 872 tons, 14.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,836 tons, 29.6 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 736 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 5.0 %
      - Hull below water: 248 tons
      - Above deck: 62 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,901 lbs / 2,223 Kg = 7.0 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 14.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 12.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.56
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.619 / 0.623
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.51 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -22.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13.00 %,  11.70 ft / 3.57 m,  11.70 ft / 3.57 m
      - Forward deck:   38.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarter deck:   11.00 %,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m,  7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.61 ft / 2.32 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 37.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,849 Square feet or 915 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 3.36
      - Overall: 1.10
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Displacement kept low:

IAB Gloria, Iberia Battleship laid down 1877
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   5,085 t light; 5,514 t standard; 5,800 t normal; 6,029 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (270.00 ft / 270.00 ft) x 48.50 ft x (26.00 / 26.84 ft)
   (82.30 m / 82.30 m) x 14.78 m  x (7.92 / 8.18 m)

Armament:
      4 - 12.00" / 305 mm 20.0 cal guns - 700.00lbs / 317.51kg shells, 60 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1877 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      8 - 8.00" / 203 mm 25.0 cal guns - 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 90 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      10 - 4.70" / 119 mm 30.0 cal guns - 42.00lbs / 19.05kg shells, 600 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     10 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 4,820 lbs / 2,186 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 15.0" / 381 mm, 13.12 ft / 4.00 m torpedoes - 0.128 t each, 0.512 t total
   In 4 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   6.00" / 152 mm   270.00 ft / 82.30 m   2.75 ft / 0.84 m
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   3rd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 6.82" / 173 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 3,855 ihp / 2,876 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 515 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   332 - 432

Cost:
   £0.432 million / $1.729 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 390 tons, 6.7 %
      - Guns: 389 tons, 6.7 %
      - Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 1,784 tons, 30.8 %
      - Belts: 1,124 tons, 19.4 %
      - Armament: 434 tons, 7.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 178 tons, 3.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 47 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 832 tons, 14.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,789 tons, 30.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 715 tons, 12.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 290 tons, 5.0 %
      - Hull below water: 232 tons
      - Above deck: 58 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4,462 lbs / 2,024 Kg = 6.4 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 13.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.25
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.596 / 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.43 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -22.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -3.00 ft / -0.91 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   13.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Forward deck:   38.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Aft deck:   38.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Quarter deck:   11.00 %,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m,  6.75 ft / 2.06 m
      - Average freeboard:      7.43 ft / 2.27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 36.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 9,544 Square feet or 887 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 115 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 662 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 3.36
      - Overall: 1.10
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Logi]

I think I'll go with the up-armored one simply because it has more utility as a function of it's greater armor thickness.

Testing a fast protected cruiser. It's greater speed is used to hunt down what the main battle-fleet can't catch or slow it down so the main battle-fleet can catch it. That means it'll probably face cruisers and the occasional faster battleship.

Designed without a rig because it would require a larger ship. A larger ship, in turn, requires a engine - protection, etc. So in the interest of keeping the weight low, the ship does not have a rig.

IAB Vizcaya, Iberia Protected Cruiser laid down 1877
Barbette ship
Central citadel ship

Displacement:
   4,403 t light; 4,615 t standard; 4,930 t normal; 5,182 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (322.73 ft / 316.00 ft) x 40.00 ft x (24.50 / 25.49 ft)
   (98.37 m / 96.32 m) x 12.19 m  x (7.47 / 7.77 m)

Armament:
      3 - 10.00" / 254 mm 30.0 cal guns - 500.01lbs / 226.80kg shells, 40 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1877 Model
     1 x Twin mount on centreline, forward deck centre
     1 x Single mount on centreline, aft deck centre
      8 - 4.70" / 119 mm 35.0 cal guns - 45.00lbs / 20.41kg shells, 400 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     8 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,860 lbs / 844 kg
      Main Torpedoes
      4 - 15.0" / 381 mm, 15.12 ft / 4.61 m torpedoes - 0.155 t each, 0.622 t total
   In 1 sets of deck mounted carriage/fixed tubes

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         8.00" / 203 mm
   2nd:   4.00" / 102 mm         -               -

   - Protected deck - single deck:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 3.00" / 76 mm  Quarter deck: 3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 8.15" / 207 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,438 ihp / 6,295 Kw = 18.00 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 567 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   293 - 382

Cost:
   £0.476 million / $1.904 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 238 tons, 4.8 %
      - Guns: 237 tons, 4.8 %
      - Weapons: 1 tons, 0.0 %
   Armour: 801 tons, 16.2 %
      - Armament: 253 tons, 5.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 497 tons, 10.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 51 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,821 tons, 36.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,544 tons, 31.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 527 tons, 10.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,795 lbs / 814 Kg = 4.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 4.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.19
   Metacentric height 1.7 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a round stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.557 / 0.563
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.90 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.78 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 20.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 2.00 ft / 0.61 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  13.00 ft / 3.96 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m,  9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.59 ft / 2.92 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 133.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 52.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,881 Square feet or 825 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 108 lbs/sq ft or 529 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 2.40
      - Overall: 1.10
   Cramped machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

im going with Sachmle, the 4.7" guns are unnecessary at this time.  Max you need 8 or so 4 pounders for scaring the natives, and dont you think 26' is just a tad bit deep for 1877.

[Logi]

im going with Sachmle, the 4.7" guns are unnecessary at this time.  Max you need 8 or so 4 pounders for scaring the native

The 4.7"/30 penetrates:
17.08" of wrought iron armor @ 1,003 yds - ~10" Krupp
14.08" of wrought iron armor @ 2,005 yds - ~8.3" Krupp
11.70" of wrought iron armor @ 3,002 yds - ~6.9" Krupp

The 10"/30 penetrates:
19.12" of wrought iron armor @ 1,005 yds - ~11.3" Krupp
17.68" of wrought iron armor @ 2,002 yds - ~10.4" Krupp
16.37" of wrought iron armor @ 3,003 yds - ~9.7" Krupp

The 4.7"/30 most certainly isn't as good at penetrating armor as the 10"/30, losing ~3" of penetration per kyd as opposed to the 10"/30's ~1.5" penetration lost per kyd. But it's not useless at all, far from it. It's important to remember that at the ranges the ships of the era are fighting at, the shells retain 90%-75% of their muzzle velocity (1 kyd - 3 kyd respectively). That's still a 45 lb shell moving at greater than 1,600 fps at near 0 degrees angle of impact...

It is useless in the future setting though as ranges expand from 2-3 kyd to 4-5 kyd. At that point the 4.7" iron penetration would be ~8.7"-5.7" (~5.1"-3.4" Krupp armor).

and dont you think 26' is just a tad bit deep for 1877.

The Italia class battleship of the period had 28.7' to 30.75' draughts. The French Devastation class had 26.5' draughts. The British Devastation class had 27.5' draughts. They were all ship classes laid down / built in the mid 1870s. The draught isn't too deep.

[Korpen]

im going with Sachmle, the 4.7" guns are unnecessary at this time.  Max you need 8 or so 4 pounders for scaring the natives, and dont you think 26' is just a tad bit deep for 1877.

They are not unnecessary. While not all that useful against enemy armoured ships of the line they have several advantages against everything else. Most importantly is the fact that being hand trained they are more accurate then the heavy guns that need power assist (or are very cumbersome to train and turn by hand). Secondly, thanks to greater accuracy and rate of fire they are useful against smaller enemy ships and offers the possibility to hit specific parts of the enemy ship. However I see less reason for them to be muzzle-loaded as ML until about 1875 can offer slightly better gas-tightness; that is less of a concern for a gun whose main function is not to defeat heavy armour.

[Sachmle]

Logi: I'm guessing those numbers are with AP rounds, which IIRC were not made for guns that small.

Korpen: How many 'small' ships do you suppose are running around in 1877-80? Most TBs are like 30-50t w/ 1 barely useful torpedo. Just seems kinda early for tertiary guns to counter TBs.

[Korpen]

im going with Sachmle, the 4.7" guns are unnecessary at this time.  Max you need 8 or so 4 pounders for scaring the native

The 4.7"/30 penetrates:
17.08" of wrought iron armor @ 1,003 yds - ~10" Krupp
14.08" of wrought iron armor @ 2,005 yds - ~8.3" Krupp
11.70" of wrought iron armor @ 3,002 yds - ~6.9" Krupp

The 10"/30 penetrates:
19.12" of wrought iron armor @ 1,005 yds - ~11.3" Krupp
17.68" of wrought iron armor @ 2,002 yds - ~10.4" Krupp
16.37" of wrought iron armor @ 3,003 yds - ~9.7" Krupp

What on earth are you using for shells for that calculation?
If any of those guns even penetrate 10cm of face-hardened armour it would be a miracle.
Running that scenario in NaAB the 12cm shot would be hard pressed to defeat 10cm of armour, let alone 30cm+

[Korpen]

Logi: I'm guessing those numbers are with AP rounds, which IIRC were not made for guns that small.

Korpen: How many 'small' ships do you suppose are running around in 1877-80? Most TBs are like 30-50t w/ 1 barely useful torpedo. Just seems kinda early for tertiary guns to counter TBs.

Smaller is perhaps the wrong word, not fully-armoured (as in not in main battle line ship) is better.
Also they are most likely more useful then the main guns at everything but shooting at heavily armoured ships.

AP shot was defiantly made for guns of all calibres. Later on capped shells of that calibre was no at all uncommon. Just because the US or UK did not used them does not mean they did not exist.