Sail / Rigging Weight

[Tanthalas]

Breastwork Monitors?? :o Good luck with simming those.

I had to take some liberties with them but they worked out more or less.

[Jefgte]

US Monitors are really poor, poor seaboat, increase seriously freeboard to have better ships.
Or choose USS Dudenberg concept.



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Jef  ;)

[Tanthalas]

My likley flawed atempt at a Hybrid Sail/Steam Cruiser.  I took the 1.5% for the above decks weight and split it as on deck and above deck (it realy dosnt make much of a Diferance if I make it all above deck) I left out the balast as my Machinery weight is already higher than the percentage for balast.  This was just to see if I got what your talking about right so dont try and draw any conclusions aobut my naval planing from it   :P

TSS Tester, Testistan Sail Cruiser Test laid down 1860

Displacement:
   2,193 t light; 2,270 t standard; 2,700 t normal; 3,044 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (224.00 ft / 224.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (18.00 / 19.87 ft)
   (68.28 m / 68.28 m) x 12.80 m  x (5.49 / 6.06 m)

Armament:
      4 - 8.00" / 203 mm 14.8 cal guns - 174.01lbs / 78.93kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1860 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 696 lbs / 316 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   145.60 ft / 44.38 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   145.60 ft / 44.38 m   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,181 ihp / 881 Kw = 11.00 kts
   Range 1,782nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 774 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   186 - 243

Cost:
   £0.150 million / $0.602 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 49 tons, 1.8 %
      - Guns: 49 tons, 1.8 %
   Armour: 319 tons, 11.8 %
      - Belts: 260 tons, 9.6 %
      - Armament: 59 tons, 2.2 %
   Machinery: 378 tons, 14.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,405 tons, 52.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 507 tons, 18.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 41 tons, 1.5 %
      - On freeboard deck: 21 tons
      - Above deck: 21 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,744 lbs / 1,245 Kg = 19.5 x 8.0 " / 203 mm shells or 1.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 2.5 ft / 0.8 m
   Roll period: 11.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.36
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.558 / 0.570
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 54.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,425 Square feet or 597 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 206 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 132 lbs/sq ft or 645 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.03
      - Longitudinal: 4.94
      - Overall: 1.20
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[miketr]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

[Carthaginian]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

I promised I'd shut up... but I also remind you, Mike, that HMS Audacious was a piss-poor handling ship and had a distinct lack of stability and a flaw in design which made her heel too badly. This means that HMS Audacious had to carry more ballast than her contemporaries to achieve the same effect.

[Tanthalas]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

in that case most of the Hybrid ships im afraid arnt going to work under the 1.20 composite (im not positive but I know it wont work for this one at a 1.20)

[miketr]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

I promised I'd shut up... but I also remind you, Mike, that HMS Audacious was a piss-poor handling ship and had a distinct lack of stability and a flaw in design which made her heel too badly. This means that HMS Audacious had to carry more ballast than her contemporaries to achieve the same effect.

How does this go against me saying you can NOT count engine weight as part of the ballast?

Michael

[miketr]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

in that case most of the Hybrid ships im afraid arnt going to work under the 1.20 composite (im not positive but I know it wont work for this one at a 1.20)

I thought Guinness changed his mind to 1.1 / 1.05 / 1.0?

Michael

[Tanthalas]

Again HMS Audacious WAS a steam ship and still had to carry ballast and so would our designs.  Engine weight does NOT count against ballast requirement.

Michael

in that case most of the Hybrid ships im afraid arnt going to work under the 1.20 composite (im not positive but I know it wont work for this one at a 1.20)

I thought Guinness changed his mind to 1.1 / 1.05 / 1.0?

Michael

IDK the last Info I had (or atleast remember reading) was 1.20 1.10 1.00, there has been some discusion about switching but I dont recall any word about it being accepted.

[Tanthalas]

revised using a 1.10 for composite ships, it works rather perfectly IMHO. (note I gave it the apropriat name since it is the Scorpion and I intend to post it in the composite str thread as well)

HMS Scorpion, United Kingdom Ironclad Turret Ship laid down 1863

Displacement:
   2,291 t light; 2,379 t standard; 2,751 t normal; 3,048 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (224.00 ft / 224.00 ft) x 42.00 ft x (18.00 / 19.60 ft)
   (68.28 m / 68.28 m) x 12.80 m  x (5.49 / 5.97 m)

Armament:
      4 - 9.00" / 229 mm 13.9 cal guns - 250.00lbs / 113.40kg shells, 60 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1863 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 1,000 lbs / 454 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   145.60 ft / 44.38 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   145.60 ft / 44.38 m   2.00 ft / 0.61 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm         -               -

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 989 ihp / 738 Kw = 10.50 kts
   Range 1,782nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 669 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   189 - 246

Cost:
   £0.149 million / $0.597 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 68 tons, 2.5 %
      - Guns: 68 tons, 2.5 %
   Armour: 368 tons, 13.4 %
      - Belts: 247 tons, 9.0 %
      - Armament: 120 tons, 4.4 %
   Machinery: 288 tons, 10.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,349 tons, 49.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 460 tons, 16.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 218 tons, 7.9 %
      - Hull below water: 176 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 21 tons
      - Above deck: 21 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,067 lbs / 1,391 Kg = 14.1 x 9.0 " / 229 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 74 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.569 / 0.579
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.33 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.97 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 34 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 37
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m,  17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:      12.80 ft / 3.90 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 52.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 65.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 6,501 Square feet or 604 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 192 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 619 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.93
      - Longitudinal: 4.81
      - Overall: 1.10
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather