Rules (Draft)

[miketr]

Well Carthaginian, I for example, would have loved to help with the economic and merchant rules - even if I would have had no say in it - but no one was interested.

The rules would have been done a long time ago if it was just one person writing them.  As it was Charles and Guinness spent all their time trying to play fire brigade between P3D and myself.  In the end Guinness had to step forward to create the current product.  I have zero faith that more people would create anything other than make more blood for the bucket / mop brigade to have to take care.

Michael

[Sachmle]

I've not jumped into this because I come here to relax, not get agitated, but seriously, enough is enough. A large portion of you just up and decided that since things were slow, N3 was dead and we had to start over. So we did, and everyone said all along it would take time. Now the same people are bitching that it's taking too long and that they can't wait. Well, no offense, but then don't wait. Y'all pushed and pushed until you killed N3, now you're trying to rush N4 out the door so fast you're setting it up to fail. We all know what did and didn't work in N3, now let them figure out how to make it work in N4. Patience is a virtue. Mine is running out, but not on waiting for N4, but on those who constantly heckle those who are working (on their own, limited free time) to make it better than N3 and fix all those bugs. I'd rather have the rules right and set than being a continuous "Work-in-progress". Inevitably, that one part that everyone decides is 'unimportant for now, we can work on it later' will become massively important right about the time no one can agree on how to do it. As to people leaving due to time constraints if the sim isn't up "right now". How will you have time later to play if you won't have time later to sim ships or decide where your army is?

[Korpen]

I've not jumped into this because I come here to relax, not get agitated, but seriously, enough is enough. A large portion of you just up and decided that since things were slow, N3 was dead and we had to start over. So we did, and everyone said all along it would take time. Now the same people are bitching that it's taking too long and that they can't wait. Well, no offense, but then don't wait. Y'all pushed and pushed until you killed N3, now you're trying to rush N4 out the door so fast you're setting it up to fail. We all know what did and didn't work in N3, now let them figure out how to make it work in N4. Patience is a virtue. Mine is running out, but not on waiting for N4, but on those who constantly heckle those who are working (on their own, limited free time) to make it better than N3 and fix all those bugs. I'd rather have the rules right and set than being a continuous "Work-in-progress". Inevitably, that one part that everyone decides is 'unimportant for now, we can work on it later' will become massively important right about the time no one can agree on how to do it. As to people leaving due to time constraints if the sim isn't up "right now". How will you have time later to play if you won't have time later to sim ships or decide where your army is?

Seconded, we should have a "like" button...

[Kaiser Kirk]

I have zero faith that more people would create anything other than make more blood for the bucket / mop brigade to have to take care.

Michael

I realize this isn't terribly constructive, but I'm entitled once in a while.

With due respect, you folks decided to appoint yourself crafters of the new game and end open discussion. 

In the open discussion, at least I could try to lobby for the type of game I might wish to partake in. With the closed session, I saw someone who's concepts I disagreed with get  participate in creating the game while I no longer had a forum.  As such, I strongly disagree with your apparent notion that closing the open discussion was a good idea.

[Guinness]

I think it's important to note that the team who has been working on the rules was not self-appointed. The mod team at the time (Maddox, Charles and Myself) asked P3D and MikeTR to participate in the work for rules for the next version of the game.

I was convinced at the time and remain convinced that trying to do that work as a committee of the whole would have been a bad idea. I'm also a firm believer in project management notion that throwing more bodies at a late project only makes it more late. This is essentially where we are now.

I've drafted a complete version of the shipbuilding rules and ship design guidelines, as well as the rules for how startup might be done, and I want Charles, P3D and MikeTR to review it (and proofread it, as there are more than a couple of bad typos in the current draft). If we can get that posted, we'll be almost there, as only coast defense is left. I expect that to be largely a cut/paste job from N3.

[Darman]

hey, shipbuilding, ship design, coastal defense, and startup.  Those seem to be the big ones I'm waiting for.  I just sort of need to know how much I can build when (for startup).  I already know how much I have budgetwise. 
by the way, thanks for those who are writing the rules, I know I sure as hell don't have the patience to do it. 

[Kaiser Kirk]

I think it's important to note that the team who has been working on the rules was not self-appointed. The mod team at the time (Maddox, Charles and Myself) asked P3D and MikeTR to participate in the work for rules for the next version of the game.

I was convinced at the time and remain convinced that trying to do that work as a committee of the whole would have been a bad idea. I'm also a firm believer in project management notion that throwing more bodies at a late project only makes it more late. This is essentially where we are now.

Good to know. From my perspective, you and Charles, despite your work as Moderators in N3, count as self appointed in terms of Creating a new rule set for N4, which extends to the invite. I much rather had seen more discussion and alternative ideas.  So my view stands.  I do recognize that it wasn't your intent to be perceived that way, that I'm probably in the minority, and you have all put in a great deal of work for the benefit of those that want to play under this new ruleset. 

For my part, I said I would poke my nose in from time to time to see what came out of the process.  I find my original decision to excuse myself from N4 nation building was wise, and I will wander off.

[snip]

I have a question regarding the muzzle velocity stated in the draft of the tech rules. Will that be calculated based on the formula given in the N3 rules, or will it be something different?

[Guinness]

I was hoping to reuse the table and equation from N3, but that particular rule could probably be better, so I think we're open to any suggestions. Guns, mounts, and related techs need a lot of fleshing out.

[TexanCowboy]

Please don't reuse the table. It doesn't allow for the oddballs like the 16.25'' British guns and the 17.7'' Italian gns.

[Guinness]

Ok, so how else could we do it?

[TexanCowboy]

I'd suggest something based on a combination of caliber and gun size. Maybe something like "Gun size times caliber cannot exceed 450 for guns bigger than 10'', 250 for guns between 5'' and 10'', and 100 for guns smaller than 5'')

The exact numbers would need some adjustment.

[Tanthalas]

I dont realy see a problem with the previous sheat, you simply use the next larger guns above and below and arive at an average.

[Carthaginian]

I know that it's out of date- and some people have accuracy complaints- but BigGun would be a viable alternative if we were willing to try it. It would allow us to create oddball calibers from scratch.

The best part is that we could directly limit the muzzle velocity or energy.

I'm not sure how NAaB works, but would be up to learning it if it would allow us to do something similar.

[Ithekro]

How is the old Jane's system handled?  Are we taking about how to make the guns, or just the break off points or specific techs?