1880 River Gun Boat

[Carthaginian]

One word Foxy: PERFECT!!!

[Tanthalas]

One word Foxy: PERFECT!!!

Have to say I agree, might be a bit long (most of the ones I could find didnt look that long anyway but I never found any data) but I would say it was just about perfect.

[Carthaginian]

Now that I'm home... I shall elaborate on the design a bit:
She is fairly long & narrow for a sternwheeler; but she's well in line for a sidewheeler. On those puny little western rivers, a sidewheeler is definitely what you'd want- she can pivot within her own length (depending on current speed), and sidewheelers generally are built on a keelboat-type hull rather than a flatboat-type (like a sternwheeler) and thus can conceivably be used in calm coastal areas (like the Mexican coast). As this little boat has freeboard similar to a lot of coastal shrimpers, it wouldn't be a stretch to use her as a cutter. The armament is in line with such a small boat- a lot of smaller weapons that can be mounted and dismounted as needs be.

I really like her DF. Though small, she's probably the best balanced, most realistically designed vessel you've ever designed. My hat is really off to you on that one.

[Nobody]

A nice little boat.

One thing though: I think the .30 rifles are either too small or too early. You should use something in the .40 to .60 range instead.

[Walter]

What's the next step, DF? A rowing boat with a gattling fastened to it? Or something like this? :D

R mini 1, Mexico River dinghy laid down 1880

Displacement:
   5 t light; 5 t standard; 5 t normal; 5 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   30.00 ft / 30.00 ft x 8.00 ft x 1.03 ft (normal load)
   9.14 m / 9.14 m x 2.44 m  x 0.31 m

Armament:
      6 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (1x6 guns), 0.05lbs / 0.02kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 0 lbs / 0 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 300

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 9 ihp / 6 Kw = 7.00 kts
   Range 400nm at 5.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 0 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1 - 2

Cost:
   £0.000 million / $0.002 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 0.8%
   Machinery: 2 tons, 35.6%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 tons, 55.0%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 0 tons, 8.6%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 lbs / 3 Kg = 130.0 x 0.5 " / 13 mm shells or 0.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.30
   Metacentric height 0.2 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 7.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.03
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.14

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.700
   Length to Beam Ratio: 3.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 5.48 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 62 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 44
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   3.00 ft / 0.91 m
      - Mid (50%):      3.00 ft / 0.91 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   3.00 ft / 0.91 m
      - Stern:      3.00 ft / 0.91 m
      - Average freeboard:   3.08 ft / 0.94 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 122.3%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.2%
   Waterplane Area: 191 Square feet or 18 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 129%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 10 lbs/sq ft or 48 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.78
      - Longitudinal: 8.75
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Desertfox]

I don't like the looks of sidewheelers, and they are more vulnerable, thought I do agree they are better for maneuvering. For the second ship I was thinking of going with propellers, thought not sure yet.


@ Walter, Well I was working on this ship...

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1880

Displacement:
   13 t light; 14 t standard; 14 t normal; 14 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   32.00 ft / 32.00 ft x 11.00 ft x 2.50 ft (normal load)
   9.75 m / 9.75 m x 3.35 m  x 0.76 m

Armament:
      1 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.69lbs / 1.22kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading gun in deck mount
     on centreline forward
   Weight of broadside 3 lbs / 1 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 70 ihp / 52 Kw = 10.00 kts
   Range 150nm at 5.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 0 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   3 - 4

Cost:
   £0.002 million / $0.007 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 0 tons, 2.4 %
   Machinery: 7 tons, 50.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 6 tons, 41.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 tons, 5.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6 lbs / 3 Kg = 2.2 x 1.9 " / 47 mm shells or 0.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 0.3 ft / 0.1 m
   Roll period: 8.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 30 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.07
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 2.91 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 5.66 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 81 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 63
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      5.00 ft / 1.52 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Mid (50 %):      4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Stern:      4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Average freeboard:   4.08 ft / 1.24 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 181.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 60.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 238 Square feet or 22 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 44 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 15 lbs/sq ft or 74 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.75
      - Longitudinal: 13.79
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has quick, lively roll, not a steady gun platform
   Caution: Lacks seaworthiness - very limited seakeeping ability

[Tanthalas]

To easy for Props to get fould/damaged in our relitivly shallow watters IMHO.

[Carthaginian]

Sidewheelers are no more damage-prone than any other paddlewheeler.
They just work better in narrow waters.

And screws are more easily scuffed up in shallow waters with sandy bottoms.

[Desertfox]

Some river boats had propellers in tunnels, at least in the WWI period, not sure how early that went.

Sidewheels are easier targets for shore gunners. Hmm... where there any central wheelers? That would help both maneuverability and vulnerability.

[Tanthalas]

would be more like a Cataram with a paddlewheal wouldnt it?  IDK how it would handle, but its hypotheticly possible.  the only real problem I see with any practical boat we can build for use on our Rivers is that any reasonably situated shore battery is going to punch holes in them before they can respond.

[Desertfox]

Yeah, make it double sided and you won't need to turn as much. Shore batteries are not that much of a problem out in the West. This is not the Mississippi with massive heavily armed forts lining the river. Shore based artillery will be primarily horse artillery, and they are usually not trained at shooting at boats. 

[Nobody]

... Hmm... where there any central wheelers? That would help both maneuverability and vulnerability.

The only central wheelers I can think of are floating water mills/ship mills.
And why should paddle wheels at the side improve maneuverability? The two wheels are usually mounted on the same axis which is also the crankshaft of the (steam) engine. For some reason rear mounted paddle wheels seem to be some kind of American fashion, at least I can't think of a single European ship which had one. Nor were there used for sea going vessels.

[Carthaginian]

And why should paddle wheels at the side improve maneuverability?

This is another of those 'cultural differences' that you Europeans don't get. ::)

The two wheels are usually mounted on the same axis which is also the crankshaft of the (steam) engine.

Yes, if there's only ONE steam engine, as in a European boat. :-\
American sidewheelers were built with TWO ENGINES, one driving either wheel. 8) This VASTLY improves the turning radius of the ship, because the ship can go 'all ahead' to one side and 'all astern' on the other... and more or less (aside from drifting in the current) simply pivot in place. ;D

[Ithekro]

One can always armor the paddlebox on a sidewheeler.  Sternwheeler can also be armored, but they look weird with an armored box on the back of the ship, but that seems to be the main style used in river ironclads of the 1860s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neosho_class_monitor and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Tuscumbia_(1862) for examples.

[ctwaterman]

*snickers*

Ok... a 3 Lb horse cannon is used to shooting at well other small cannon or small groups of troops the Ship is to put it bluntly a very large target in comparison.

a 20 Lb Parrot or Armstrong Rifled Gun will shoot these little ships apart.   The standard Union Filed Artillary battery from 1860 On out guns and nearly out tons these little boats that being said they are still a nice design.

My Design for use on the Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, and Missouri Rivers are all 1000 to 1500 ton designs and if I armor them draw nearer 8' to 10' feet and cannot reliably go to far up the Missouri or the Mississippi once the water level drops by mid summer.

Hmm may have to purchase a few Mexican side wheelers for use on the upper Missouri durring summer.