Economic discussion

[Darman]

Lacking someplace else to discuss this (that hasn't gotten off-track) I figured I'd ask my question in a new thread.  NERF (how I'm going to come to love/hate that acronym) is rather small territory-wise for a North American nation.  I have no problem whatsoever with that, as a matter of fact if it was much larger I probably wouldn't know what to do with it in the beginning.  My question concerns trade with neighbors, since NERF obviously cannot produce everything (especially raw materials) that a developing economy needs.  Could there possibly be economic advantages to be derived from making trade agreements with neighboring countries?  Perhaps only a minor economic boost if there is no money put into it and the agreement is with a neighboring country.  And if the agreement is with a nation further away, and access is by sea only then a certain investment in a merchant marine and/or port improvements might be necessary.  This isn't out of a desire for more complication in the administration of individual nations but for a slightly more realistic interaction between nations.  The United Kingdom is not going to want to go to war with the Egyptians supplying England's textiles industry with cotton.  But England might choose to intervene in the American Civil War because the North was interfering with the supply of cotton from the South, adversely affecting England's economy (even if only slightly).  Those are both OTL examples and not necessarily applicable in N4, but I'm certain similar circumstances can be dreamed up, making war between certain nations in neither nations' best interests.

[ctwaterman]

To answer your question without putting up the Whole Economic Section which is still being tweaked but I like where its heading. 


But Yes 20% of every nations income will be directly or indirectly derived from Trade.
Every nation will need to choose other nations that it is trading with.   At least 4 other countries including most logically its neighbors for Costal and internal trade.

This allows Naval Blockades and Cruiser Warfare to directly and indirectly effect a nation.

As an Example.

The United Souther States [USS] or what ever I finally decide to call it...
Logically I trade with England because I sell them Cotton for machine tools and Cash.
I also trade cotton to the Mills in the North East Republic for Iron Ore and Cash.
I have internal trade with the NER and Tejas trading food and such for different foods.  I sell Tobacco, Rice, Cotton, Beans and Hogs... I buy Wheat and Cattle.

So Lets say England and Spain go to war.....

Spain declares a Naval Blockade of England and puts commerce raiders into the North Atlantic.   Well this adversly effects not only British Shipping it effect my Shipping and My Trade Balance as well.  Possibly not enough to declare war in support of Britain but enough to call the Spanish embassador into Washington DC and have a talk about just what Neutral Rights my Navy is prepared to enforce.  ;D

Now this may or may not make since but I think its what you are trying to get at and its something we are putting into the game system it was something that was missing from the last game.

[Ithekro]

That might open the place up for Privateering as well (as oppose to outright pirates).  Governement fundened private vessels as well as actual commerce raiders, more likely the later unless the privateer is basically using an American Civil War or older model of privateering.  Just basically arming something like a tramp freighter or older sailing vessel..which would be enough against other civilian ships, but if they are using old smoothbore cannon, practically useless against anything that is armored.

[Carthaginian]

Well, privateers would not be possible here because you still have to pay for them.
That would take them out of the realm of privateers and turn them into naval vessels.

[Ithekro]

What about Privateers of NPC nations funded by PC nations?  The PC nation would likely still have to pay for it (at least the arming cost), but it wouldn't be part of their navy (deniabilty if one runs into the wrong nation's warships).

[Carthaginian]

What about Privateers of NPC nations funded by PC nations?  The PC nation would likely still have to pay for it (at least the arming cost), but it wouldn't be part of their navy (deniabilty if one runs into the wrong nation's warships).

I have no desire for this to be in the game- as it has too much potential to be abused.
Simple, simple, simple... that's the way to go.

No need to have ships under some other nation's control and possibly turn around and bite you.

[Tanthalas]

im with Carth on this, if you want Comerce Raiders build em and pay for em yourself LOL, now how you use them in fluff is up to you but for practicality we will own and pay for em.

[ctwaterman]

The Game Mechanic is to support a legitimate ruse of war... the use of ones cruisers to interdict trade with a nation you are at war.

1.  The Potential for Abuse...

Of course their is potential for abuse.  On the other hand one can reasonably expect that any Privateer will spill his guts to avoid being hung for a Pirate.  Legitimate letters of Marque and Reprisial are signed documents and traceable back to the country who issued them.  Privateers carrying fake or questionable copies of such documents are PIRATES.  The rule of law is simple Catch a Pirate Try him on the deck of your ship and then hang him unless you want to make a spectacle of his trial by taking him home trying him or her and hanging them.

I will be blunt here people have a tendancy to know more then their employers want them to know.   They know where their paychecks are comming from and what ports they sailed from.  Pesky bits of information that their employers might not want their enemy to know.  And they will usually tell everything they know to avoid recieving 100 lashes followed by a hanging or to avoid being keel hauled repeatedly. ???  :o

So if you think a secret funding project to pay some small third world nation to fund Privateers or even Pirates to attack you opponent consider what the ruler of that third world nation will say when the Royal Marines are questioning him after kicking in his door because they captured and questioned some of his Employee's ?

[Darman]

Now this may or may not make since but I think its what you are trying to get at and its something we are putting into the game system it was something that was missing from the last game.

Yes that is pretty much exactly what I was wondering.  I figured it was extraordinarily important to know when trying to design the nation and its infrastructure but even more important for designing the navy. 

[Nobody]

This "sneak peek" sounds very promising. I can't wait.

That aside I would love to see an environment which encourages military exports and imports.

[Darman]

I think the best way to encourage military imports and exports is for the mods to allow some NPC nations to belligerently expand their armies/navies at different times, possibly with small arms races (ABC nations in S. America prior to WW1 being a case in point with Brazil having the most powerful dreadnaught in the world at one point (her sister became HMS Erin I believe?). 

[ctwaterman]

Many of those Small countries will want Warships but be unwilling or unable to afford to build and maintain the Ship building Industrys represented by the building and maintenance of Slips and Drydocks.

They will want to pay someone to build them ships and will probably look for a ship design they like or seek bids for who will build a ship to their specifications.   They will also have armies most likely ill trained conscripts but Dictators usually love to have the best toys they can afford for their Armies.  So they might very well wish to purchase the best modern toys for thier armies as well.