1860 Frigate...

[snip]

I hate making rules for the sake of making rules... but I think we need to make a rule to prevent stuff like this.

agreed

[Walter]

I didn't notice the transom stern till you pointed it out.

Well, I had to sit down at home and take another look at it to spot it, despite the fact that I was also following the Tour de France.
I was like:
"Hey! That sneaky used an illegal transom on his design." :D

*this message was sensored by the International Commitee against Foul Language Usage*
;D

[miketr]

Speed fun facts

A Frigate with full sail could do 12-13 knots, in 1860 a steam screw ship does maybe 9 - 14 knots depending on engine and hull condition.  The higher speed requires wind a the ships back for sails.  I would try to keep coal bunker at 10% or less of total displacement.

The transom hull is just silly.

Michael

[Desertfox]

DF's ship is clearly built with the intent to do things that 10 sailing ships could do realistically.

Yes that was the intention. The Black Pearl was supposed to be the fastest ship afloat.

DF's personal history shows that this will be used, abused, folded, spindled and mutilated.

If you are going to stoop to persoal attacks, please have some evidence to back it up. This ship is clearly a one-off fun ship, that will have nothing to do with my actual military ships.If you care to look at my actual frigates you can see that no "cheats" or transom sterns or whatever where used.

Once I did... well, it's against the rules and therefore cheating.

Since we have no rules, it can't be cheating...

The transom hull is just silly.

That's why its there.

[Tanthalas]

Oh well if DF wants to waste tonage on a ship that will be out of date and worthless let him guys, im sure someone will enjoy runing it down and punching great holes in it.  Then they can have a trial for its crew at sea and hang them all (after all thats the punishment for Piracy)

im just sick of people not being able to come up with original ideas, seriously using Luke skywalker, Jack Sparrow or anyone else common in pop culture shows a depressing lack of imagination (I dont care if you base the character on them but atleast change their names FFS and not just to somthing obviously recognisable as such)

[Carthaginian]

DF... at work now so will be brief. Anyone can look back at your designs from N3 and see where this will go... including but not limited to the LAST time you tried the Jack Sparrow bullmess.

The ship is intended th be a cheat, plain and simple. The fact that everyone posting on a regular basis has already called you out on her would tell a more reasonable man something.

[Nobody]

I'm with Tanthalas here. As long as the resulting ship is pretty much useless, I have no problems if it stretches (the not yet existing) rules.

[Desertfox]

You use pop culture people, because they are recognizable. Would you make the connection that 'Jorge de la Garza' is supposed to represent 'Jack Sparrow'? Probably not, unless it was made extremely obvious, in which case, whats the point in changing the name?

Umm... New Switzerland and Mexico are completely different nations with completely different strategic conditions. A fast, lightly armored, long range, cruiser fleet is most definately not suited for combat in the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah I like fast ships, but it doesn't make scence to build any here. So I don't see any point in your "see where this will go..." comment, seeing that I already posted actual Mexican ships that come way after this ship is supposed to be built.

I know it's a cheat, I pointed it out myself...

[Desertfox]

Better? Based on the CSS Alabama. Overall hull strength is 1.00 without transom stern.


La Perla Negra, Built in Great Britain Pirate Frigate laid down 1862

Displacement:
   1,458 t light; 1,506 t standard; 1,586 t normal; 1,650 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   220.00 ft / 220.00 ft x 32.00 ft x 18.00 ft (normal load)
   67.06 m / 67.06 m x 9.75 m  x 5.49 m

Armament:
      10 - 4.80" / 122 mm guns in single mounts, 32.00lbs / 14.51kg shells, 1862 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 320 lbs / 145 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,365 ihp / 1,018 Kw = 13.00 kts
   Range 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 143 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   125 - 163

Cost:
   £0.142 million / $0.569 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 40 tons, 2.5 %
   Machinery: 410 tons, 25.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 758 tons, 47.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 127 tons, 8.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 250 tons, 15.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     659 lbs / 299 Kg = 20.5 x 4.8 " / 122 mm shells or 0.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 1.0 ft / 0.3 m
   Roll period: 13.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.35
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
     and transom stern
   Block coefficient: 0.438
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.64 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 35
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.00 ft / 4.57 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Mid (50 %):      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Stern:      12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.24 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 119.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 84.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 4,619 Square feet or 429 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 114 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 82 lbs/sq ft or 402 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.89
      - Longitudinal: 5.35
      - Overall: 1.07
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Ithekro]

How does one simulate a pure sailing vessel in SS2/SS3?  Cause this would be the time period of the Clipper Ships.

[Tanthalas]

dont include an engine?

[Ithekro]

Then how would you deturmine the speed under sail?

[Carthaginian]

Untill the transom stern goes away, this ship does not exist in nature.

[Tanthalas]

Then how would you deturmine the speed under sail?

uhm Estimate?  I think we decided it was like 2% of her weight to give a ship a full sailing rig other than that though IDK.

[miketr]

You don't want to put on 32 lb guns you want to put on some flavor of shell gun in 7, 8, 9 inch, etc size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahlgren_gun#Dahlgren_shell_guns

Michael