Navy of Deseret

[Tanthalas]

the freeboard is just done because of my insane desire to do things in nice neat even decks, would it make people happier if it was 7'?  I considerd that but decided it was to low even for coastal pacific operations, (I actualy liked 11' but it obviously isnt even decks).

Well... if you really want to stick to 7' per deck, then we're looking at a total of less than 5.85 decks on your latest design. And that is not including the thickness of the bottom of the ship. :D

5.85, I thought I had it at 5.5 (digs through his spring sharrp files to find the ship in question) crap your right, oh well dosnt realy matter I suppose... I figure eng. spaces, storage spaces and what not are taller than 7' which I randomly selected as my deck height when I was looking at being in asia.  Perhaps I should reconsider that as im in NA now.

[Walter]

If you truly have an insane desire to do things in nice neat even decks, you need to be aiming either for 5 or 6 decks and not somewhere in between. :)

Perhaps I should reconsider that as im in NA now.

Oh? Are you assuming that your navy consists of 6' giants? They should learn to bend a little and mind their head or join the Army. :)

[Tanthalas]

I generaly go for a bit extra to sim things like the bildges, fuel tanks and big stuff that wouldnt necessarily fit in my 7' deck height number (engines come to mind) but now im trying to figure out why I went so much extra this time (ill add it to the list of wierd shit I have found on my early ships (like why did I put a 2' tall upper belt on a ship thats heavier than the main belt...)

[Walter]

like why did I put a 2' tall upper belt on a ship thats heavier than the main belt...

Maybe for the purpose of "sim the sloped armord deck of a PC" as indicated at the beginning of the thread?

[Tanthalas]

like why did I put a 2' tall upper belt on a ship thats heavier than the main belt...

Maybe for the purpose of "sim the sloped armord deck of a PC" as indicated at the beginning of the thread?

I did it before we got that from Jef (which I find to be an outstanding idea still) no I think it was somthing more inane like I forgot to reduce it to match the lower belt especialy since its an 1860 ship with no deck (based on HMS Scorpion)

[Tanthalas]

Nutcracker, Dominion of Deseret Harbor Defence Ironclad laid down 1865

Displacement:
   3,206 t light; 3,337 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 3,630 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   235.00 ft / 235.00 ft x 46.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
   71.63 m / 71.63 m x 14.02 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm guns (2x2 guns), 312.50lbs / 141.75kg shells, 1865 Model
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
      4 - 4.50" / 114 mm guns in single mounts, 28.48lbs / 12.92kg shells, 1865 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 1,364 lbs / 619 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.00" / 203 mm   152.75 ft / 46.56 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   152.75 ft / 46.56 m   3.00 ft / 0.91 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   8.00" / 203 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 8.00" / 203 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 960 ihp / 716 Kw = 10.00 kts
   Range 680nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 293 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.293 million / $1.170 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 170 tons, 4.9 %
   Armour: 1,193 tons, 34.1 %
      - Belts: 607 tons, 17.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 392 tons, 11.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 154 tons, 4.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 40 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 265 tons, 7.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,577 tons, 45.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 294 tons, 8.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     2,647 lbs / 1,201 Kg = 8.5 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.02
   Metacentric height 1.6 ft / 0.5 m
   Roll period: 15.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.31

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.667
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.11 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 15.33 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 39
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   14.00 ft / 4.27 m (7.00 ft / 2.13 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   8.40 ft / 2.56 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 61.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 49.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,311 Square feet or 772 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 113 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.33
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is extremely poor
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[TexanCowboy]

DOD Nutcracker Band in Action

[Tanthalas]

Not a serious ship, just built for the LOL factor. its based of the most worthless ship ever built (the great eastern) and in that Vein I decided it to had to be totaly Worthless (although it can take an impresive number of 11" shells)

Great Pacific, Dominion of Deseret Steam Battleship laid down 1865

Displacement:
   22,977 t light; 23,640 t standard; 27,600 t normal; 30,769 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   692.00 ft / 692.00 ft x 82.00 ft x 28.00 ft (normal load)
   210.92 m / 210.92 m x 24.99 m  x 8.53 m

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (4x2 guns), 415.94lbs / 188.67kg shells, 1865 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
   Weight of broadside 3,328 lbs / 1,509 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 60

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   484.00 ft / 147.52 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   10.0" / 254 mm   484.00 ft / 147.52 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   10.0" / 254 mm   6.00" / 152 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 1.00" / 25 mm, Conning tower: 10.00" / 254 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 3 shafts, 9,879 ihp / 7,370 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 7,129 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   1,069 - 1,391

Cost:
   £1.535 million / $6.140 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 416 tons, 1.5 %
   Armour: 7,543 tons, 27.3 %
      - Belts: 4,874 tons, 17.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,699 tons, 6.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 774 tons, 2.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 197 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 2,725 tons, 9.9 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 12,292 tons, 44.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,624 tons, 16.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,790 lbs / 16,234 Kg = 86.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 16.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 76 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.608
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.44 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.31 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 19 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Forecastle (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Mid (50 %):      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Stern:      17.00 ft / 5.18 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.00 ft / 5.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 44.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 41,813 Square feet or 3,885 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 169 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 207 lbs/sq ft or 1,012 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.10
      - Longitudinal: 0.97
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Ithekro]

Look up USS Roanoke from around 1863.  There is more or less your first multi-turreted warship.  And it was so heavy on its steam frigate frame that is pretty much brokes her own back and couldn't really do more than harbor defense.

I would ask about little things that don't appear on SS (I think)...armor type.  Are your ships using iron, compound armor, or early nickle-steel armor?

I recall Rohan's semi-dreadnoughts that came at the start of N2.  There was a slight complaint about the A-B-X configuration (that made it relatively easy to rebuilt them with a superimposed B turret after they were about 15 years old), but they also had several flaws.  They were slow mostly.  There armor was on the thin side in places.  But Rohan's designs before them were, "more guns, more guns, don't care how, just more guns", to the poing of using casemate 12" BL with 9" BL as the secondary.  By the time the Theoden came out the weirdness settled down a little and they made reasonable ships...but they were still on the slow side (15 knots for a 1893 design).  Rohan's ships progressed and even whenthe 14" guns came about due to war the design style remained more or less semi-dreadnoughts with 9" secondary turrets.  Only the acquirement of a French semi-Dreadnought changed that...because the gun layout for the 13.4" guns didn't fit Rohan's new 14: guns and was too large for the 12" twins...so they made an overly tight 12" triple turret creating the first dreadnought by default, since the French were using 13.4" and 12" secondaries (the "my guns are bigger" theory mixed with the build time on the 13.4" was too long to make a lot so make a few and use 12" for the rest of the ship).

Everything has to come from somewhere.  The trouble with turrets in the mid-1800s was they were considered experimetal for a long time.

[Carthaginian]

Look up USS Roanoke from around 1863.  There is more or less your first multi-turreted warship.  And it was so heavy on its steam frigate frame that is pretty much brokes her own back and couldn't really do more than harbor defense.

Yep... and while that particularly shitty conversion was accumulating a great big pile of FAIL, there were multiple purpose-built European ships which were proving the concept of the multi-turreted ship. I can find at least a dozen contemporaries of the U.S.S. Roanoke which had long and useful careers in various European navies.

None of the desperate wartime conversions were particularly successful, nor should they have been expected to be. They were, in general, poorly planned, hastily executed, and lacked the proper resources.

[Tanthalas]

Ok first atempt at a compliant SS3 ship opinions welcomed as always

St. Michael, Dominion of Deseret Armored Turret Frigate laid down 1865

Displacement:
   7,688 t light; 7,964 t standard; 8,800 t normal; 9,469 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (285.00 ft / 285.00 ft) x 62.25 ft x (26.66 / 28.38 ft)
   (86.87 m / 86.87 m) x 18.97 m  x (8.13 / 8.65 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 13.5 cal guns - 535.00lbs / 242.67kg shells, 70 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1865 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 45.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts, 1865 Model
     4 x Single mounts on side ends, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,340 lbs / 1,061 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   12.0" / 305 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   5.75 ft / 1.75 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   9.00" / 229 mm            -
   2nd:   1.00" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 4,600 ihp / 3,432 Kw = 13.31 kts
   Range 2,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,505 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   453 - 590

Cost:
   £0.515 million / $2.060 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 151 tons, 1.7 %
      - Guns: 151 tons, 1.7 %
   Armour: 2,836 tons, 32.2 %
      - Belts: 1,730 tons, 19.7 %
      - Armament: 373 tons, 4.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 641 tons, 7.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 92 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,269 tons, 14.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,423 tons, 38.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,112 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 9 tons, 0.1 %
      - Hull below water: 9 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,612 lbs / 3,906 Kg = 20.7 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 2.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.40
   Metacentric height 4.4 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has low forecastle, low quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.651 / 0.658
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.58 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.88 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 51
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  8.50 ft / 2.59 m,  8.50 ft / 2.59 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  10.75 ft / 3.28 m,  10.75 ft / 3.28 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.75 ft / 3.28 m,  10.75 ft / 3.28 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  4.00 ft / 1.22 m,  4.00 ft / 1.22 m
      - Average freeboard:      9.40 ft / 2.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 61.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,606 Square feet or 1,264 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 146 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.07
      - Longitudinal: 3.34
      - Overall: 1.20
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Tanthalas]

Just kinda screwin around with SS3 still, but it ended up kind of intreaguing so I thought id go ahead and post it.  would somthing like this even be possible under the rules is why im posting it.

Enter ship name, Enter country Enter ship type laid down 1885

Displacement:
   7,459 t light; 7,802 t standard; 8,500 t normal; 9,058 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (330.00 ft / 330.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (24.00 / 25.36 ft)
   (100.58 m / 100.58 m) x 16.76 m  x (7.32 / 7.73 m)

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm 35.0 cal guns - 600.01lbs / 272.16kg shells, 80 per gun
     Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1885 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 35.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1885 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 35.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1885 Model
     4 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 3,600 lbs / 1,633 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   11.0" / 279 mm   214.00 ft / 65.23 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   116.00 ft / 35.36 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   7.00" / 178 mm   214.00 ft / 65.23 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.00" / 25 mm   1.00" / 25 mm      10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 3.00" / 76 mm
   Forecastle: 2.00" / 51 mm  Quarter deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 10.00" / 254 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8,146 ihp / 6,077 Kw = 16.50 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,256 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   442 - 575

Cost:
   £0.743 million / $2.972 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 547 tons, 6.4 %
      - Guns: 547 tons, 6.4 %
   Armour: 2,691 tons, 31.7 %
      - Belts: 1,514 tons, 17.8 %
      - Armament: 339 tons, 4.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 748 tons, 8.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 90 tons, 1.1 %
   Machinery: 1,583 tons, 18.6 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,608 tons, 30.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,041 tons, 12.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0.4 %
      - On freeboard deck: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,001 lbs / 3,175 Kg = 11.4 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 2.4 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 14.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 67 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.77
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.683 / 0.689
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 60
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  11.00 ft / 3.35 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.84 ft / 3.30 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 88.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 14,327 Square feet or 1,331 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 102 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 135 lbs/sq ft or 657 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 2.20
      - Overall: 1.05
   Adequate machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room

[Tanthalas]

ok so I took the previous ship and tryed it out with all Breach Loading period guns (best I could figure for period guns anyway they all enterd production around 1880) Personaly I dont think it would be legal (or shouldnt be anyway) but I figure what the heck its kinda cool looking (and it has a shit ton of 6" guns =P)

Rate Of Fire, Deseret Armored Cruiser laid down 1879
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   5,911 t light; 6,220 t standard; 7,000 t normal; 7,624 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (330.00 ft / 330.00 ft) x 55.00 ft x (22.50 / 24.14 ft)
   (100.58 m / 100.58 m) x 16.76 m  x (6.86 / 7.36 m)

Armament:
      4 - 10.00" / 254 mm 32.0 cal guns - 400.00lbs / 181.44kg shells, 100 per gun
     Breech loading guns in open barbette mounts, 1879 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1879 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
      2 raised mounts
      8 - 6.00" / 152 mm 25.0 cal guns - 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 120 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1879 Model
     8 x Twin mounts on sides, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.00" / 229 mm   214.00 ft / 65.23 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   4.00" / 102 mm   116.00 ft / 35.36 m   8.00 ft / 2.44 m
   Upper:   4.00" / 102 mm   214.00 ft / 65.23 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         10.0" / 254 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -
   3rd:   3.00" / 76 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5,600 ihp / 4,177 Kw = 15.30 kts
   Range 4,200nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,404 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   382 - 497

Cost:
   £0.488 million / $1.951 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 355 tons, 5.1 %
      - Guns: 355 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 1,960 tons, 28.0 %
      - Belts: 1,045 tons, 14.9 %
      - Armament: 399 tons, 5.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 446 tons, 6.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 71 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 1,173 tons, 16.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,303 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,089 tons, 15.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 120 tons, 1.7 %
      - Hull below water: 40 tons
      - Hull above water: 40 tons
      - On freeboard deck: 40 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,162 lbs / 3,249 Kg = 17.2 x 10.0 " / 254 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.34
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.38
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.39

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.600 / 0.609
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.17 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 43 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m
      - Quarter deck:   20.00 %,  10.00 ft / 3.05 m,  12.00 ft / 3.66 m
      - Average freeboard:      10.32 ft / 3.15 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 72.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 66.2 %
   Waterplane Area: 13,275 Square feet or 1,233 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 126 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 129 lbs/sq ft or 632 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.02
      - Longitudinal: 2.14
      - Overall: 1.10
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Cramped accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

what yall think?

[Tanthalas]

Here is the first ship im giving serious consideration to using for Deserets Navy.  She is based loosley on Admiral Lazarev and her guns are based on the British RML 11 inch 25 ton gun.  I would apreciate any constructive opinions on her.

DNS Kain, Dominion of Deseret Armored Turret Frigate laid down 1865

Displacement:
   3,316 t light; 3,500 t standard; 3,850 t normal; 4,130 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (258.00 ft / 258.00 ft) x 43.00 ft x (20.00 / 21.22 ft)
   (78.64 m / 78.64 m) x 13.11 m  x (6.10 / 6.47 m)

Armament:
      6 - 11.00" / 279 mm 13.5 cal guns - 535.00lbs / 242.67kg shells, 60 per gun
     Muzzle loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1865 Model
     3 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
      Weight of broadside 3,210 lbs / 1,456 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   180.00 ft / 54.86 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 107 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   5.00" / 127 mm   1.00" / 25 mm            -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 5.00" / 127 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 1,406 ihp / 1,049 Kw = 11.05 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 629 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   243 - 317

Cost:
   £0.248 million / $0.994 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 150 tons, 3.9 %
      - Guns: 150 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 770 tons, 20.0 %
      - Belts: 468 tons, 12.2 %
      - Armament: 149 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 126 tons, 3.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.7 %
   Machinery: 388 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,946 tons, 50.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 534 tons, 13.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 63 tons, 1.6 %
      - Hull above water: 63 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     3,371 lbs / 1,529 Kg = 8.1 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.6 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 2.3 ft / 0.7 m
   Roll period: 11.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.75
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.06

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle, raised quarterdeck ,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.607 / 0.614
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 33 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Forward deck:   30.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Aft deck:   40.00 %,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m,  6.00 ft / 1.83 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m,  8.00 ft / 2.44 m
      - Average freeboard:      6.60 ft / 2.01 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 55.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 37.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,001 Square feet or 743 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 164 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 167 lbs/sq ft or 814 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 2.86
      - Overall: 1.10
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Extremely poor accommodation and workspace room

[Tanthalas]

In Responce to Logis predread, I came up with this toy.

DNS Joseph Smith, Deseret First Class Battleship laid down 1877

Displacement:
   12,781 t light; 13,500 t standard; 14,824 t normal; 15,883 t full load

Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
   (460.00 ft / 460.00 ft) x 76.00 ft x (21.00 / 22.31 ft)
   (140.21 m / 140.21 m) x 23.16 m  x (6.40 / 6.80 m)

Armament:
      8 - 11.00" / 279 mm 22.0 cal guns - 535.00lbs / 242.67kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret mounts, 1877 Model
     2 x Twin mounts on centreline, evenly spread
     2 x Twin mounts on sides amidships
      16 - 5.00" / 127 mm 30.0 cal guns - 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 150 per gun
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts, 1877 Model
     16 x Single mounts on sides, evenly spread
      12 hull mounts in casemates- Limited use in all but light seas
      Weight of broadside 5,080 lbs / 2,304 kg

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   322.00 ft / 98.15 m   14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ends:   6.00" / 152 mm   138.00 ft / 42.06 m   12.00 ft / 3.66 m
   Upper:   8.00" / 203 mm   322.00 ft / 98.15 m   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
     Main Belt covers 108 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   6.00" / 152 mm            -
   2nd:   8.00" / 203 mm         -               -

   - Armoured deck - multiple decks:
   For and Aft decks: 2.00" / 51 mm
   Forecastle: 1.00" / 25 mm  Quarter deck: 1.00" / 25 mm

   - Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,434 ihp / 4,800 Kw = 14.00 kts
   Range 4,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,382 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   671 - 873

Cost:
   £0.865 million / $3.458 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 467 tons, 3.1 %
      - Guns: 467 tons, 3.1 %
   Armour: 5,415 tons, 36.5 %
      - Belts: 3,538 tons, 23.9 %
      - Armament: 793 tons, 5.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 967 tons, 6.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 117 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 1,389 tons, 9.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 5,481 tons, 37.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,043 tons, 13.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 30 tons, 0.2 %
      - Hull above water: 30 tons

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     26,245 lbs / 11,904 Kg = 49.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 4.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.41
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 82 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.42

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck,
     a normal bow and a cruiser stern
   Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.707 / 0.713
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.05 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 21.45 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 31 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
            Fore end,    Aft end
      - Forecastle:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Forward deck:   35.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Aft deck:   35.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Quarter deck:   15.00 %,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m,  14.00 ft / 4.27 m
      - Average freeboard:      14.00 ft / 4.27 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 47.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 28,188 Square feet or 2,619 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 143 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 756 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.03
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.05
   Excellent machinery, storage, compartmentation space
   Adequate accommodation and workspace room
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily