Navy of Deseret

Tanthalas · July 09, 2011, 11:36:07 PM

Quote from: TexanCowboy on July 09, 2011, 11:24:44 PM
I'm a period nazi*, and I'm fine with barbettes. It's the AQY thing that freaks me out.

*ok, I object to that term, but that deserves a whole nother thread...

ROFL the term comes from my days playing knight in the SCA, when I used a Salet and Bevor with chainmail, Pauldrons, fingerless gauntlets, and a Basket hilt Backsword. and got dirty looks for "mixing periods". I actualy got the term from an older gentelman who admired my look as it was "unique" without looking stupid.

Desertfox · July 09, 2011, 11:40:28 PM

Then go with a 3 on barbettes and 4 on casements skip the 4.5" secondary and cut the speed.

Carthaginian · July 09, 2011, 11:47:17 PM

Quote from: Desertfox on July 09, 2011, 11:40:28 PM
Then go with a 3 on barbettes and 4 on casements skip the 4.5" secondary and cut the speed.

DF... the speed is perfectly period, the secondary battery is perfectly period, and the armor is period.
I managed to find me some Conway's since I was here last, and this ship was built while Tan and I debated a half a dozen ships he planned to co-opt historically to explain his design lineage. We also had Conway's open while we were designing the ship, looking at all the ships that were around at the the time.

Desertfox · July 09, 2011, 11:55:03 PM

Might be nice if you point me at some of those ships... specifically the more advanced ones.

Carthaginian · July 10, 2011, 12:05:33 AM

Quote from: Desertfox on July 09, 2011, 11:55:03 PM
Might be nice if you point me at some of those ships... specifically the more advanced ones.

What do you mean 'the more advanced ones'?

Dude... no nation on earth put the evolution that Tan has planned into practice- his design progression is fictional, just like whatever you come up with will be fictional.

The following ships all have elements of what Tan has planned; you should know a few- you used one of them yourself, in fact:
HMS Devastation: centerline full turrets - 1871
HMS Prince Albert: A-Q-Y full turrets - 1864
RIS Admiral Lazerev: A-Q-Y full turrets - 1868
FS Richelieu: A/A-Y/Y barbettes - 1869
FS Redoubtable: A/Y-Y barbettes - 1873
FS Amiral Duperre: A/A-Q-Y barbettes - 1877 - NEAR PERFECT MATCH

Desertfox · July 10, 2011, 12:18:17 AM

None of them used BL guns, and all the triple turret designs use single guns. Also none go over 14 knots.

There is a near perfect match, the Brandenburg class of 1890, what's that 15 years in the future?

Tanthalas · July 10, 2011, 12:30:22 AM

Quote from: Desertfox on July 10, 2011, 12:18:17 AM
None of them used BL guns, and all the triple turret designs use single guns. Also none go over 14 knots.

There is a near perfect match, the Brandenburg class of 1890, what's that 15 years in the future?

Brandenburg type is the end destination (for my 1890 ships anyway I get kinda wierd after that as everything I want to do depends on what happens in the world)

what im atempting to do is come up with a logical progression to that point I dont want jerks and stops, I want every class to be the logical progression of the previous class. Duperre was ths ship that told me I could do AQY in 1877, and it used 13.4" guns and I used 11" guns. While I havnt tested it I imagine they are acording to springsharp interchangeable (example twin 6" for single 8" or twin 8" for single 10" both of which I have messed around with)

Carthaginian · July 10, 2011, 12:33:45 AM

Quote from: Desertfox on July 10, 2011, 12:18:17 AM
None of them used BL guns, and all the triple turret designs use single guns. Also none go over 14 knots.

There is a near perfect match, the Brandenburg class of 1890, what's that 15 years in the future?

http://www.cityofart.net/bship/amiral_duperre.html
Amiral Duperré was armed with four 13.4"/L18 cal breech-loading rifles.
http://www.cityofart.net/bship/redoutable.html
Redoubtable was armed with six 10.8" breech-loaders- three in barbettes and four in broadsides.

Also, there were MANY ships that were in the 10,000+ ton range that had speeds of 14-15 knots at this time.

Sorry, DF- you're just wrong here.

Desertfox · July 10, 2011, 12:38:58 AM

But your original ship is already exactly like Brandenburg, just 15 years early. AQY is fine, just do it with singles. If you want more guns stick them in casements, and again, anything over 14 knots is too fast.

OK so I was wrong, I saw the 18 caliber figure it was a ML. My point still stands. That ships is miles ahead of anything designed in OTL. Why do you have to design the perfect ship? How does a country with 25 years of existence suddenly build the best ship in the world?

Carthaginian · July 10, 2011, 12:43:34 AM

Quote from: Desertfox on July 10, 2011, 12:38:58 AM
But your original ship is already exactly like Brandenburg, just 15 years early. AQY is fine, just do it with singles. If you want more guns stick them in casements, and again, anything over 14 knots is too fast.

OK so I was wrong, I saw the 18 caliber figure it was a ML. My point still stands. That ships is miles ahead of anything designed in OTL. Why do you have to design the perfect ship? How does a country with 25 years of existence suddenly build the best ship in the world?

Your point DOES NOT stand.
He is not designing a PERFECT SHIP.
He does not have to use SINGLES.

Tan has sit down, looked at a broad spectrum of vessels that are available at the time he wishes to build a ship. He then took the features he wanted to incorporate into his nation's design progression, and he built ships that he liked.

His nation is building this ship because he wants it to build them!
What, are you gonna argue that since 'Mexico' has been around for hundreds of years, it can build top-of-the-line ships, even thought Mexico can barely build its own ships NOW... in the 21st century?

TexanCowboy · July 10, 2011, 12:48:16 AM

QuoteHis nation is building this ship because he wants it to build them!
What, are you gonna argue that since 'Mexico' has been around for hundreds of years, it can build top-of-the-line ships, even thought Mexico can barely build its own ships NOW... in the 21st century?

Carthaginian · July 10, 2011, 12:49:42 AM

You forgot the mezcal!

Desertfox · July 10, 2011, 12:53:20 AM

There is no OTL ship of the same time period that could stand to it on a one on one fight. And why would Desert want such a powerful ship? My plan for Mexico was to have broadside armored frigates in the Pacific.

Actually all the latest warships of the Mexican Navy are completely homebuilt. And it has some pretty decent sized patrol frigates in service. And no I am not arguing Mexico can build top-of-the-line ships. The Devastation based ship I posted was to be built with foreign assistance and is possible even completely British built (like in OTL).

Real Mexican Navy:

TexanCowboy · July 10, 2011, 12:57:07 AM

Is this where I mention that all my stuff is homebrewed by my crazy mad scientists...nah...

Carthaginian · July 10, 2011, 01:02:08 AM

NO ship in the 1870's could hold up?
DF, you really don't believe that, do you?

40% of the waterline is unarmored... easy pickings for bad damage which will slow the ship QUICKLY. It might not sink, but it wouldn't hold it's speed very long in a fight. The armor is FAR thinner than many nations battleships... it can be pierced by most guns 12" and greater easily. The fore turret has no armor between the magazine and the turntable, meaning anything that hits the ammo hoise will destroy the ship.

Still think it's perfect?