French Navy

[Jefgte]

I work actualy, SS & drawing, on the citadel BB Dévastation & Foudroyant.



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Dévastation-Foudroyant, France Citadel BB laid down 1876

Displacement:
   8 590 t light; 9 104 t standard; 9 879 t normal; 10 500 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   314.96 ft / 314.96 ft x 68.90 ft x 26.12 ft (normal load)
   96.00 m / 96.00 m x 21.00 m  x 7.96 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns in single mounts, 947.40lbs / 429.73kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 10.79" / 274 mm guns in single mounts, 495.85lbs / 224.91kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.50lbs / 1.14kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 463 lbs / 2 478 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   4 - 13.8" / 350 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   216.54 ft / 66.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   8.66" / 220 mm     55.77 ft / 17.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     42.65 ft / 13.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   8.66" / 220 mm     85.30 ft / 26.00 m   13.45 ft / 4.10 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.97" / 50 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 11.81" / 300 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 848 ihp / 5 109 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 396 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   495 - 644

Cost:
   £1.085 million / $4.338 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 683 tons, 6.9 %
   Armour: 2 859 tons, 28.9 %
      - Belts: 1 937 tons, 19.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 105 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 700 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 117 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1 502 tons, 15.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 247 tons, 32.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 289 tons, 13.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 3.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 777 lbs / 3 528 Kg = 8.2 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.45
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.610
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.57 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.75 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 48 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.16 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 114.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 020 Square feet or 1 488 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 130 lbs/sq ft or 635 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.85
      - Longitudinal: 4.18
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Guinness]

Mon Dieu! French ships are ugly.

(Yes, I know this isn't news.)

[Carthaginian]

LOL... there are uglier ones to come!

Nice work, Jef!

P.S.
Another ship that proves that anything more than 1.00 composite strength will kill the ability to sim historic ships. This one is pretty much bang on target, but making it be 1.10 or heavier would make the tonnage too heavy.

[Guinness]

What was the construction of this ship? Was it steel hulled or iron? I haven't found a resource yet that's not in French that might tell me.

[Guinness]

really anything 1860 - 1900ish is useful

[Jefgte]

Waouhhh !!!

Much comments

I have also my sources:
a 1978 Conway"Modern History of Warships" by William Hoovgaard
Dévastation-1879-9600t-15kts
4x12"6 + 2x10"5 + 6x5"5 - belt 15"

100 ans de Marine Francaise - april 2002
From the 1869 Océan to 1940 Jean-Bart...
Foudroyant & Dévastation
Dévastation: LD 20 dec 1875
10500t
Protection: Wrought Iron
Belt 380-Citadel 240-Deck 60
4x340+2x274+6x140
twin screws-15kts
Steel elements used in the building of the predecessor "Le Redoutable" LD 10 july 1873

Other sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ironclad_D%C3%A9vastation

http://navalhistory.flixco.info/G/253758x53053/281303/a0.htm

Interresting infos from Wiki about armor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironclad_warship


Jef

[Jefgte]

Update: her predecessor Redoubtable was the world's first steel warship, so I assume these were all steel too. Our current thinking is we might require 1.1 for iron, 1.05 for early steel, and 1.0 for later steel.

After research...
Dévastation hull structure use steel but armor boards were in wrought iron.

So, I could rework easely the SS & have a strenght of 1.1

Jef

[Jefgte]

I have rework SS to have "Hull strength = 1.10"

Dévastation-Foudroyant, France Citadel BB laid down 1876

Displacement:
   8 989 t light; 9 474 t standard; 10 266 t normal; 10 900 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   323.49 ft / 323.49 ft x 69.69 ft x 26.57 ft (normal load)
   98.60 m / 98.60 m x 21.24 m  x 8.10 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns in single mounts, 947.40lbs / 429.73kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
     4 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      2 - 10.79" / 274 mm guns in single mounts, 495.85lbs / 224.91kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 10.79" / 274 mm guns in single mounts, 495.85lbs / 224.91kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      4 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns in single mounts, 66.14lbs / 30.00kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.50lbs / 1.14kg shells, 1876 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6 058 lbs / 2 748 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 80
   4 - 13.8" / 350 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   223.10 ft / 68.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
   Ends:   9.45" / 240 mm     55.77 ft / 17.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
     44.62 ft / 13.60 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   9.45" / 240 mm     72.18 ft / 22.00 m   11.81 ft / 3.60 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm         -               -
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.36" / 60 mm, Conning tower: 8.66" / 220 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6 922 ihp / 5 164 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 426 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   509 - 662

Cost:
   £1.163 million / $4.653 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 757 tons, 7.4 %
   Armour: 2 707 tons, 26.4 %
      - Belts: 1 776 tons, 17.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 123 tons, 1.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 721 tons, 7.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 88 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 518 tons, 14.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3 787 tons, 36.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 278 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 220 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 051 lbs / 3 652 Kg = 8.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 1.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 100 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.49
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 2.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 17.99 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      23.62 ft / 7.20 m
      - Forecastle (12 %):   23.62 ft / 7.20 m (19.69 ft / 6.00 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   20.16 ft / 6.14 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 104.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 115.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 16 487 Square feet or 1 532 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 85 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 147 lbs/sq ft or 718 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 4.52
      - Overall: 1.10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Jefgte]

From the RULES

Initially Revealed Tech Tree
Years are: Years everyone can get it/Years only those with required establishment can get this. Establishments required are in (parens)

Naval Propulsion:
Baseline: Engine year: year laid down, 100% coal, simple expansion engines only
1890/1885: Engine year: year laid down, 100% coal, vertical triple expansion engines (Naval Propulsion Establishment)

Shipbuilding Materials:
Baseline: Iron ships, overall strength of 1.2 required
1890/1885: Early steel ships, overall strength of 1.1 required (Either the Capital Ship or Jeune Ecole Establishment)

Armor:
Baseline: Composite armor.
1890/1885: Harvey Nickel Steel armor, protection +1. (Capital Ship Establishment)

Artillery:
Baseline: Max muzzle energy 1900 million lb.ft^2/s^2
1890/1885: Max muzzle energy 2500 million lb.ft^2/s^2 (Guns gunnery and Fire control)

With a strenght of 1.2, I can't SS the real characts of the Dévastation.

with a strenght of 1.1 - 10900tfl -  is the top limit of the characts find on every infos source, NET or books.


Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

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[Tanthalas]

With a strenght of 1.2, I can't SS the real characts of the Dévastation.

with a strenght of 1.1 - 10900tfl -  is the top limit of the characts find on every infos source, NET or books.


Jef  ;)

im runin into the same problem mate, lotsa period ships work fine at a 1.10 but a 1.20 is a no frekin way kinda thing.

[Jefgte]

I agree, 1.2 is unrealist number ...

To All... forget it


Jef  ;)

[Jefgte]

Terrible-Rochambeau, France 3rd class BB laid down 1877

Displacement:
   5 890 t light; 6 287 t standard; 6 890 t normal; 7 373 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   275.59 ft / 275.59 ft x 59.38 ft x 24.56 ft (normal load)
   84.00 m / 84.00 m x 18.10 m  x 7.49 m

Armament:
      2 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns in single mounts, 339.55lbs / 154.02kg shells, 1877 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on centreline, evenly spread
      6 - 9.45" / 240 mm guns in single mounts, 339.55lbs / 154.02kg shells, 1877 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 5.51" / 140 mm guns (4x2 guns), 67.40lbs / 30.57kg shells, 1877 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      8 - 1.85" / 47.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.55lbs / 1.16kg shells, 1877 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 3 276 lbs / 1 486 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 130
   4 - 13.8" / 350 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   190.29 ft / 58.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
   Ends:   3.15" / 80 mm     55.77 ft / 17.00 m   7.22 ft / 2.20 m
     29.53 ft / 9.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm   203.41 ft / 62.00 m   9.19 ft / 2.80 m
     Main Belt covers 106 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.97" / 50 mm, Conning tower: 7.87" / 200 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 5 652 ihp / 4 217 Kw = 15.00 kts
   Range 3 000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 085 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   377 - 491

Cost:
   £0.721 million / $2.884 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 409 tons, 5.9 %
   Armour: 1 905 tons, 27.7 %
      - Belts: 1 292 tons, 18.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 116 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 436 tons, 6.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 61 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 1 220 tons, 17.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 195 tons, 31.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 001 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 160 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     4 423 lbs / 2 006 Kg = 13.0 x 9.4 " / 240 mm shells or 0.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.28
   Metacentric height 3.6 ft / 1.1 m
   Roll period: 13.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 80 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.31
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.59

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 16.60 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -10.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (14 %):   15.42 ft / 4.70 m (11.48 ft / 3.50 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (16 %):   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Stern:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.09 ft / 3.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 105.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 64.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 11 969 Square feet or 1 112 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 89 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 601 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 3.58
      - Overall: 1.10
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Excellent seaboat, comfortable, can fire her guns in the heaviest weather

[Carthaginian]

Why still SS2 Jef? SS3 would make this ship awesome (probably buy you another foot or so on the belt).

[Sachmle]

What Carth said, plus: Deck mounts for 24cm guns? Ouch! I feel for the gun crew already.