Asia Buildup

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Nikolaevsk na Amure needs dredging. It is a 4,5 metre port in OTL (same as Komsomolsk).
Borys

[Valles]

Since things are dead here and life's kept me from working on my attempt at a draft timeline, have another map revision, now with key!

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c386/valles_uf/asia-valles-v09.png

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I'm good.
Borys

[Valles]

While I'm trying to work on the first third of my timeline proposal - 300-800CE - some questions for the other players in the area:

Borys, is Vladivostok a satisfactory/intended name, or do you have another in mind? What sort of 'feel' do you have in mind - displacement of former natives by imported Slavs, a thin veneer of political control over a large mass of 'locals', a confusing muddle in the middle, a hybrid state like Austria-Hungary, or some other fill-in-the-blank?

P3D, is Indochina a monolith of a particular culture, an empire with distinct substates, or what? How old do you picture the state being, and its antecedents? What does it call itself? Is it Thai, Vietnamese, or something else altogether? Is it at a high point in its history, or recovering from a low ebb? Are there any cultural traits and historical relationships you want to work into it?

Walter, Psychoward, which 'Chinas' do you have in mind, and likewise, what do you have in mind for their societal attitudes? I'm intending that N4's China spent more time fragmented than OTL's, but there would still be that strong tradition of unification informing their attitudes - but how do you see these states 'dealing' with their relationship to that situation? And to each other!

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Vladivostok is a perfectly good name.

Politically - the whole mess arose from a combination of Manchu's seeking asssistance against Hand and Korean encroachment and "Slavic" expansion.

Ethically - the north and east are mostly Slavic already (poorly populated areas), with a continuing inflow into Manchuria proper. The Manchus have set aside land for themselves, designating areas for rural settlement of the white peasants. The whites are also flowing to the mines and industrial cities. The Manchus prefer to farm and hunt, with extra money from soldiering - pretty much as OTL Cossaks. One of the reasons why they are getting along so well ...

Chinese immigration is banned - the Willow Wall is in good condition and manned.
Hopei is solidly Chinese and considered something of a separate entity. The same applies to the steppe lands with Mongol herdsmen.


Thus the country consists of:
- Slavic Amur Valley and Primorskiy Krai
- Manchu Heartland with Slavic pockets
- Chinese Hopei
- Mongolian Steppe Strip

Eurasians are accepted among the whites, slightly less so among the Manchu, and disapproved among the Chinese. Hence they tend to end up as "whites".

The Manchu and Chinese are pagans, of course. I've yet to decide what brand Christianity the whites are following. I'm mulling over a crazy twist on Old Believers - gaining political supremacy over the Christian population, in needs of priests with apostolic succession, yet rejecting the Nikon following schismatics, they end up embracing ... Rome.

Borys

[Walter]

I already idicated what I wanted, both by PM and here, but I'm not getting any feedback on that.

I might as well continue discussing about it with the door to the right of me or the wall behind me...  :(

[Walter]

With a pair of PMs, got my decision thanks to the video games I play:

Wei!

*goes off to change avatar*

[Nobody]

*goes off to change avatar*

*looking at the new one*

I prefer the old one ;)

[Walter]

You might prefer this old one but I actually prefer the 'newer', slightly darker game version of Cao Cao. :D

[Valles]

An inspired choice, sir! IIRC, Psychoward had originally requested the Phillipines and part of southern China, so I'm guessing Zhu would be most to his taste... will update map once I'm off work.

[Walter]

An inspired choice, sir!

I knew that. IMO, Wei has the cooler characters in the Dynasty Warriors games. :)

[Valles]

I'm planning to replace the Jin dynasty with a Cao one. ^_^

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c386/valles_uf/asia-valles-v10.png

[Walter]

I'm planning to replace the Jin dynasty with a Cao one. ^_^

In a sense, Jin is an extention of Wei so it does not really matter. :)

[Valles]

Lord knows I'm late with it, but here's the first (oldest) third of my proposed 'lead up' timeline to the 'current' situation in East Asia.

300 CE
CHINA: Cao dynasty retains control of Cao Wei, extending Three Kingdoms period

KOREA: Gaya Confederacy suffers major internal civil war, weakening it enough to be conquered by Kingdom of Baekje

JAPAN: Beginning of multisource history of Yamato Dynasty; educated foreigners imported by same

INDOCHINA: Historical peak of Funan Empire


400 CE
CHINA: Cao Wei conquers lower Yangtze River valley from Sun Wu, breaking that state's power

KOREA: Goguryeo conquers Silla and wars on Baekje; Baekje's economy/military propped up by trade with Japan

JAPAN: Yamato kings subjugate four rival dynasties in southern half of Japan using armies equipped with Korean iron

INDOCHINA: Chinese historian from Sun Wu compiles account of Funan history


500 CE
CHINA: Cao Wei conquers first Shu Han, then remainder of Sun Wu, reunifying China under the Cao Dynasty

KOREA: Goguryeo concludes alliance with Yamato, eliminating major pillars Baekje's economy and military with the removal of Japanese trade money and hired mercenaries; Korea unified

JAPAN: Yamato kings begin attempts at Chinese style centralization, road building. Rebellions crushed with armies paid for by Goguryeo bribe money and blooded in mercenary service on the peninsula

INDOCHINA: Chenla kingdom established; Funan Empire begins to weaken


600 CE
CHINA: Liu Yuan and Liu Lingjui (no documented relation) publish works advocating 'Productivist' (the explicit state removal of non-farmers and non-craftsman, AKA merchants) and 'Mercantilist' (leniency to merchants and commerce) policies; the latter focus on the role of trade and transport in bringing goods to market as the 'contribution' of the merchant. 'The Masters Liu' enters use as a phrase equivalent to modern Western 'Montagues and Capulets'.

KOREA: Goguryeo attempts to conquer Manchuria from native nomad tribes, but loses several armies to ill weather and mounted archer raiding

JAPAN: Yamato state builds two successive 'planned' capitals, Nara in 603 and Kyoto in 638

INDOCHINA: Funan empire enters 'collapse' period, with component sub-states breaking free, and falls into civil war


700 CE
CHINA: Three successive Cao emperors adopt Productivist policies, destroying Chinese internal trade and economy; last Cao emperor, later recognized as one of the most able members of any dynasty, is overthrown by a general rebellion despite his repudiation of the Productivist school

KOREA: Observing Japanese and Chinese examples, the kings of Goguryeo begin importing scholars from all across east Asia and attempting to establish a 'civilized' central government. Goguryeo is the first East Asian state to found a permanent bureaucracy filled by impartial examination.

JAPAN: Japanese kings at Kyoto begin construction of paved road network linking all sections of their territory

INDOCHINA: Chenla begins expanding into the power vacuum left by the fall of Funan, conquering various neighboring city-states.


800 CE
CHINA: Warlord and general Min Tai establishes Min dynasty 865, followed by first Chinese Civil Service.

KOREA: Goguryeo conquers Shangdong Peninusula and begins fortifying city of Qufu as a border defense post, ~840

JAPAN: Imperial edict permitting construction of fortifications by 'subject lords' begins weakening of central power in Japan; northern border begins to expand north through Honshu.

INDOCHINA: Chenla unifies Indochina, begins fortifying northern (Chinese) border.

[P3D]

Valles,

please slow down with Indochina, I can make the history up myself, now at least I have some time with it ;)
You digging up some relevant names will help me enormously.

I haven't even decided yet that the nation I play should be Siam, Khmer, Dai Nam or Dai Viet based. I need to get ship names from somewhere, ain't I?  :P