Europe Buildup

Nobody · June 16, 2011, 07:26:46 AM

I don't really like were this discussion is going, but oh well so is life.
I kind of liked the idea of not having to deal with France. More importantly, why do you want to split Switzerland?

At the same time I like my own idea of everyone starting equal less and less, instead I propose that the starting economy should contain a part which is proportional to the number of direct neighbors.

miketr · June 16, 2011, 10:02:36 AM

Quote from: Jefgte on June 16, 2011, 02:38:27 AM
Thanks Guinness

France territory is too small.
To increase lightly France, I hope to have south of Belgium, west of Switzerland & a few region in the south of France.
Pays Basque & Roussillon could be to Iberia &
Mediterranean coast (Comté de Nice) to Italy.

Jef

Restoring historic France makes more sense than this.

Michael

Jefgte · June 16, 2011, 10:06:01 AM

QuoteRestoring historic France makes more sense than this

Exact !!!

Jef

Barcaii · June 16, 2011, 10:54:14 AM

though in the case of a historic France I'd still like to keep Nice and Savoy if possible. It would not be a major loss of territory for France and would fit in with my TL for Italy, and considering that France got them in 1860 it should not be that a strange change.

Guinness · June 17, 2011, 06:05:50 PM

Ok, circling back around here:

Does the idea of historical France, minus Nice and Savoy work? If so, I'd like to keep Switzerland as we have it, and keep the "low countries" nation as it is on the last map draft.

If that works, it feels like Europe's map is done.

Delta Force · June 17, 2011, 09:57:53 PM

So, Jefgte has switched out Iberia in favor of France and I now have Iberia?

miketr · June 19, 2011, 11:35:32 AM

Quote from: Delta Force on June 17, 2011, 09:57:53 PM
So, Jefgte has switched out Iberia in favor of France and I now have Iberia?

YES

miketr · June 19, 2011, 11:43:51 AM

OK I think this is where Europe is at and so unless there are some other problems we can call it locked.

http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1885/europev8.png

Michael

Valles · June 19, 2011, 03:51:42 PM

Hmm. Hey, Guinness, are you still planning to have the British Isles being Brythonic-speaking Celts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ogham

Guinness · June 19, 2011, 07:51:06 PM

No not really, But Gaelic probably doesn't get displaced by English in most of Ireland.

P3D · June 20, 2011, 05:23:18 AM

Just nitpicking, but I'd split Bosnia with Serbia and AH - no reason for a separate BH without Ottoman conquest, and historical Croatia (that was in personal union with Hungary).
I'd also give Serbia access to the Adriatic (Montenegro?). So no land border between the AH and Byzantium.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/se_europe_1105.jpg

And agree on exactly who gets Alsace - the Rhein as a natural frontier would make more sense.

miketr · June 20, 2011, 05:55:28 PM

To keep Byzantium simple from 1452 on it did much of the Ottoman Empire did in Europe. So it tried to break into central Europe Twice and has been driven slowly back in the Balkans since the high water mark in the 17th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vienna_%281683%29

Michael

Borys · June 21, 2011, 05:18:49 AM

Ahoj!

Quote from: P3D on June 20, 2011, 05:23:18 AM
And agree on exactly who gets Alsace - the Rhein as a natural frontier would make more sense.

The Vogesen are just as natural ...
Borys

miketr · June 21, 2011, 07:31:20 AM

Quote from: Borys on June 21, 2011, 05:18:49 AM
Ahoj!
Quote from: P3D on June 20, 2011, 05:23:18 AM
And agree on exactly who gets Alsace - the Rhein as a natural frontier would make more sense.
The Vogesen are just as natural ...
Borys

This says the natural border in the west is the Meuse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschlandlied

All Jokes aside what do our German and French Players say?

In theory we have something like a Franco Prussian War here so the 1871 borders make some sense.

Michael

Guinness · June 21, 2011, 08:51:47 AM

Alsace and Lorraine are sure to be a contentious in-character issue, so to a certain extent, it may not matter who starts with them.

I've got a few options:
1. Both go to France
2. Both go to Germany
3. One goes to France, one goes to Germany
4. Both together are set up as some neutral independent, possibly as a result of our Franco-Prussian war analogue.
5. Both plus some other territory get paired up with the Low Countries to make a new player nation for Fallout
6. They end up owned by Great Britain for some reason TBD ;)

I suspect 1 and 2 won't be ok to both Jef and Nobody.

3 is explicitly a "split the baby" solution, so maybe we don't like that either.

5 I'm not sure I like that much, but I want to hear from everyone else in Europe on that one.

So it seems like 4 may be the best option.