Europe Buildup

[snip]

having Russia dissolve in 1848 would work, as my big things that need a "historical" Russia happen in the 1790's. *scheems*

[Sachmle]

With France fractured and Russia NPC, what is to keep Germany from taking over the continent? Austria-Hungary will pretty much exist at Germany's whim.

Well, with NPCs weaklings on my southern and eastern border, and a (more than likely) friendlier than OTL Italy to my west, I can focus on keeping my Hohenzollern "cousins" in check to my north. Does that answer your question?

[Carthaginian]

We want to prevent what Republic of Orange did to a certain extent in N3.  P3D suggested the policy based on his experiences there.  The simple fact of the matter is directly connecting to colonization territory is a big advantage in terms of logistics and would make the conquest / expansion much easier.  So we want to reduce this.  Russia is to be a NPC buffer nation to force people to do things across the water.

Michael 

Very sound idea... and easily respectable.
Russia would also be almost impossible to defeat as a player nation, so I can see that as well.

[Nobody]

More successful 1848 revolutions?
I don't really like it, but I could live with that. However it would mean:

• no "German-German war" (with Austria)
  
• no "Prussian-Danish war"
  
• no "Franco-Prussian war"

[miketr]

The French revolution set off a series of events that triggered over a generation of wars 1789-1815.

We could have the 1848 revolutions degenerate into a series of wars.  Out of which Germany and Italy unified while France and Russia fractured.

Michael

[Delta Force]

We want to prevent what Republic of Orange did to a certain extent in N3.  P3D suggested the policy based on his experiences there.  The simple fact of the matter is directly connecting to colonization territory is a big advantage in terms of logistics and would make the conquest / expansion much easier.  So we want to reduce this.  Russia is to be a NPC buffer nation to force people to do things across the water.

Michael 

Very sound idea... and easily respectable.
Russia would also be almost impossible to defeat as a player nation, so I can see that as well.

Without a France, Russia would actually have a lot of issues with defense, unless Austria-Hungary and Russia had an emperors' league. The Far East would be an even larger problem unless Russia is on good terms with China.

So Russia probably is a good nation to keep NPC, since without allies it is quite vulnerable, and with allies it can steamroll other nations. That, and it is pretty much a coastal defense force navy wise.

[Carthaginian]

We want to prevent what Republic of Orange did to a certain extent in N3.  P3D suggested the policy based on his experiences there.  The simple fact of the matter is directly connecting to colonization territory is a big advantage in terms of logistics and would make the conquest / expansion much easier.  So we want to reduce this.  Russia is to be a NPC buffer nation to force people to do things across the water.

Michael 

Very sound idea... and easily respectable.
Russia would also be almost impossible to defeat as a player nation, so I can see that as well.

Without a France, Russia would actually have a lot of issues with defense, unless Austria-Hungary and Russia had an emperors' league. The Far East would be an even larger problem unless Russia is on good terms with China.

So Russia probably is a good nation to keep NPC, since without allies it is quite vulnerable, and with allies it can steamroll other nations. That, and it is pretty much a coastal defense force navy wise.

Delta- Russia has two things that no army can defeat:
1.) time and space
2.) brutal winters

Russian tactics have always included drawing an enemy into their territory, stalling for time, then letting winter do most of the work. As long as Russia wasn't in a two front war, they would have a very good chance of defeating anyone simply by using the weather as a weapon.

[Guinness]

It sounds like we may need at least one more nation in Europe, (going by this thread: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5537.msg70895#msg70895).

I could live with Poland, but I suspect it's strategic situation would be tenuous, even with a fractured Russia.

I could live with some sort of lowlands nation, but I suspect it's internal political situation would be difficult. It certainly makes more sense with a fractured France however.

I could also live with Jef going to France, freeing Iberia. Maybe France should only be the Northern territory + Brittany on Mike's map? Is that big enough?

[Korpen]

It sounds like we may need at least one more nation in Europe, (going by this thread: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5537.msg70895#msg70895).

I could live with Poland, but I suspect it's strategic situation would be tenuous, even with a fractured Russia.

I could live with some sort of lowlands nation, but I suspect it's internal political situation would be difficult. It certainly makes more sense with a fractured France however.

I could also live with Jef going to France, freeing Iberia. Maybe France should only be the Northern territory + Brittany on Mike's map? Is that big enough?

I might have missed something, but what is the problem with a more or less intact France?

[Carthaginian]

I have no issues with an intact, but weakened, France. If France had suffered a more vicious defeat in the Franco-Prussian war- or even in the Napoleonic Wars- and have been forced to release her overseas colonies, it would still play into the setup that we need for having a lot of 'white space' on the map.

Alternatively, perhaps France underwent another civil war during the 1850's, and during that time many of her overseas dependencies gained some form of independence... maybe going from true colonial possessions into 'dominions' with limited self-government. By the time the sim starts, these nations would have managed to become totally independent.

[Guinness]

I don't think there's a problem. I suspect it's just a case of wanting to go the opposite direction from N3's gigantic nearly all powerful France.

We do like the idea of a few NPC "buffer states" in Europe, and fractured France sort of grew out of that. It would (theoretically) give the other Continental powers something to fight over without having to fight on each other's territory. In my mind it's optional.

I proposed only most of France for Jef for a couple of reasons. One was to avoid France having ports in both the Atlantic and Mediterranean. If we used historical France, it would effectively be the only nation in N4 obligated to divide it's fleet at the start of the game. The second was to put an NPC in bordering all of France, Italy and Spain.

[Darman]

.....One was to avoid France having ports in both the Atlantic and Mediterranean. If we used historical France, it would effectively be the only nation in N4 obligated to divide it's fleet at the start of the game.....

Mexico has two coasts: Gulf of Mexico and Pacific. 

[Guinness]

This is true, and may be a problem to be worked out when Foxy returns from his research trip, but Mexico's strategic situation in that regard would either be better or worse than France's, depending on your point of view. It's a long way for Mexico to go to concentrate it's fleet, but it's also a lot harder to bottle either fleet up than it would be to bottle France's fleet up.

[snip]

Also, France would be surrounded by PC nations, were it looks like Mexico with have some NPC nations around, which could help to alleviate the problem. Then again, maybe not.

[Guinness]

Mexico as is now will also benefit/suffer from very much longer borders, FWIW. Borders in Europe are quite a bit shorter, especially when you figure that all PCs will start out with the same relative military strength.