Europe Buildup

[Korpen]

If you believe that this narrow strip of land will stop the barbarian hordes from the east, allow me to doubt...
;D  ;D  ;D


Jef

East???
The barbarians live on the west side of Elass-Lothringen...
Some people knows nothing about cultural geography... ;)

[Nobody]

One of my points for Elass-Lothringen is that it is strange that the combined German forces defeated France in 1871 and despite gaining additional territory, wealth and reparations only have the same economy ten years later.

Two. The story I thought of before you two expressed your doubts would have been like this:
Early in the Franco-Prussian war the provinces of Elass-Lothringen (whose 1.5 million people are >85% German, ~12 French and 75% roman-catholic) saw their chance, declared themselves independent from France and immediately started negotiating with Germany. As a result the area could not go to Germany as a war prize (because it no longer belongs to France).
I would expect them to have several defense agreements (at least with Germany, but also other 3rd states, maybe even France as well).
Also I wanted to add a translation error as a story element, so that the French-German peace treaty of 1871 has different meanings about the status of Elass-Lothringen for both sides.

[miketr]

Might makes right, be right.  With German troops in control of A-L and Paris the territory ends up wherever the Germans say it does.

Michael

[Delta Force]

I was considering switching to Poland, with Karl Ludwig (whose lineage includes Franz Ferdinand and Karl I) as king. However, that would require the Austrian player to create a new lineage for Austria, since all Austrian monarchs (and would be monarchs) are descended from Karl Ludwig due to Crown Prince Rudolf's death.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
You could use the Teschen Habsburgs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Charles_Stephen_of_Austria
Most of his children were Polonised, and one of his sons ended up an Ucranian patriot.
Borys

[Guinness]

Nverse 4 British History (the short short version):

The history of the British Isles departs with the birth of Henry VIII's and Anne Boleyn's first and only surviving child, Henry IX. Henry the VIII had already divorced Catherine, his first wife, and in doing so piloted the departure of the English Church from that of Rome, so England under Henry IX remains a protestant realm.

Henry VIII signs the Treaty of Greenwich with the Scots as historical, securing a peace treaty, and the hand of Mary I and his son Henry IX. Scottish repudiation of the treaty in 1543 leads to renewed war and eventually. Henry VIII dies two years later. Mary is  transported to France in 1548 to eventually be married to the Dauphin, as part of the proposed marriage alliance between Scotland and France.

It is not 1551 that Henry IX reaches maturity. The war in Scotland, which by now is essentially an occupation is costly, and Henry instructs his court to find an end to it. "Surely," he is said to have asked, "we can unify the Kingdoms for less treasure than this!"

Over the next two years, a newly concerted diplomatic campaign, aimed at the dual goals of neutralizing the Franco-Scottish alliance while opening the way for a unified British kingdom begins to bear fruit. Rumors circulate throughout England and Scotland as to the true nature of French "hospitality" toward the underaged Scottish monarch. Mary of Guise commits the fatal error, attacking across the border in 1558. Her army is defeated in September of 1558 near York, and by that spring the English were again at the walls of Edinburgh.

Henry IX, through clandestine channels, dispatches a letter to Mary I who was married in April 1558 in Paris. He proposes that she leave her husband and return to Britain. He declares that because she had been held "in captivity" from childhood that her marriage could not be considered genuine and so far that she remained a virgin, should be annulled. Mary I does not repsond, but would become distant from her French husband, and began to write to many close to Henry IX in England inquiring as to true conditions in the realm, and in some cases asking for advice. Following her mother, Mary of Guise, Mary I declares that she will return to rule Scotland. The matter of her husband being settled before her departure by his death in December 1560.

After an extended official courtship, and to the dismay of the French, Henry IX and Mary I were married in 1562. He was 29, she was "old" at twenty.

Mary gave Henry no less than six surviving children, including four sons, all of whom would serve as king, the last of which, Henry X is remembered in Britain as the oldest man to ever assume the throne at the age of 60.

The Spanish choose to snuff out the growing power of the English with an invasion in 1588. The Armada is defeated as in our timeline at Gravelines.

With the Tudors remaining on the throne, and without the Stuarts, British domestic and foreign policy develops differently. The British meddle in the Netherlands more or less as historical, resulting in William of Orange's ascension to the Dutch throne, where he stays, there being no need or opportunity for him to take the British throne. The result is a larger, stronger Netherlands.

There are still attempts at colonization in North America, but a stinging defeat at the hands of the French in the Seven Year's War leads ultimately both to an end to English monarch's claims on French territory and to an attempt to tighten the grip on the North American colonies and a resultant revolt, giving birth to 13 independent states in North America. (See North American history).

Britain merchants become well known around the world's ports as a result of the efforts of the East India Company. The Tudors come to see the East India Company as a rival and distrust it, and over time refuse to grant it the necessary concessions which would allow it to hold it's own territory in places like India. Ultimately, by the early Nineteenth century the British Merchant Ensign is well known in ports in Europe, on the East Coast of North America, and a few other friendly ports of call, but virtually unknown anywhere else. Lack of vision among the later Tudor Kings, and a lack of commitment to invest in overseas expansion after the stinging loss of the North American colonies led to a British focus inwards throughout the late 18th and early 19th centuries; a focus which only after 1850 began to change.

The Royal Navy remains a proud and professional force, the key to retaining Britain's access to the sea on which it's survival depends, but it is very much more a force concentrated on maintaining the North Atlantic sea lanes, and pursuing Britain's standing policy of free access to the sea for all.

[Guinness]

Delta Force to Iberia or Poland:

Personally, I see a lot more value in an active player in Iberia, but I'd like to hear the pro/con arguments.

[miketr]

Poland is to be a NPC power and blocked in terms of expansion on all fronts anyways.  I suggest Iberia is a far better spot to have a player.

Michael

[Guinness]

Well, I'm hoping to hear the "for Poland" argument too...

[Walter]

Wouldn't Iberia be a better obstacle for any wannabe European conqueror who wishes to expand his empire into Africa?

[miketr]

Well, I'm hoping to hear the "for Poland" argument too...

What argument?  It sucks as a location to put a PC nation.  Having to worry about Black Sea and Baltic with no direct access to the worlds Oceans.  In a game thats mostly naval based I can't think of a much WORSE spot to put a PC.

Michael

[Ithekro]

That depends on playstyle.  Someone may want a small navy and focus on their army...even if this is a naval sim.

I considered Poland, but I didn't think I wanted to work with a two navy approach that could be bottled up and never operate together.  You would have a Black Seas Fleet and a Baltic Fleet, and they would be designed around different standards.  Seeing how that is basically the Russian Navy (without a way out in the Arctic nor needing a Pacific Fleet) some people might like that...since they can focus on two fleets instead of a potental four.

I went Korea because I wanted my navy to at least be able to operate as a whole and be in a more interesting position in terms of power to naval needs.  Poland could dominate the Black Sea or the Baltic Sea, but they couldn't dominmate both without sacrifices being made to the other.  But they could float a large coastal defense force and be certain that they would be a factor in both seas.

Save that Poland is pretty much a flat plain and thus easily taken by Armies.

[miketr]

Another part of the logic to me that its a bad location.

Black Sea is shared by Russia, Poland - Ukraine and Byzantium.  With Russia land power an Byzantium a major power (+a mod power) trying to build a battle fleet to go head to had with Byzantium sounds like a bad idea.  Now building a fleet strong enough to deny Russia use of the Black Sea sounds very reasonable.

Michael

[Delta Force]

Poland would be a well balanced economy and with a strong population and agricultural base and good potential for industrialization. I think it would be somewhat similar to Austria-Hungary in terms of military and economic outlook, apart from having a two ocean navy. It will neighbor two powerful rivals as well as have a diverse empire. I've played Austria-Hungary in another game before, and I am not too worried about having a mostly coastal defense force since the arms race with rivals can be intresting too, and even the tiny KuK managed to make several innovations like superfiring triple turrets. The environment of a nice protected sea also allows for more experimentation with unusual or small and fast designs without having to worry about operations on the high seas. So, even though the navy will obviously take a backseat to the army, there are still a lot of intresting things that can be done given the somewhat unique conditions of the location and not having to worry about things like the North Atlantic.

I am not opposed to staying with Spain though, they have a strong naval tradition. However, I have never played a global imperial power before, only just Great Powers with regional fleets like Austria-Hungary or Japan.

[miketr]

I talked with Guinness and if you really want Poland - Ukraine its yours.  Something to keep in mind is all.  Player nations are all to have equal economies, so Spain, Poland doesn't matter.

If you don't want to go for global empire then don't.  You can do that with Spain if you want to.  Its your choice.  I just see Spain as a better place to start.

Regards,

Michael