North America Buildup

[Guinness]

Thus far, we have been unable to come to an agreement with Logi on a nation in that region.

[TexanCowboy]

I think that's reasonable. Say a line somewhere between Corvallis and Eugene?

Logi: yes, we want S. America "virgin" and have tried to compensate elsewhere. I'm still a little concerned about that nation effectively controlling access to the Gulf of Mexico as is, but I suppose if that's ok with Tex, it's ok with me. :)

Charles computed that the land area of that nation now is roughly a little larger than Japan.

I'm not really happy about that at all. It's putting Texas in the classical Germany situation. (France being a major enemy to the south, Germany being Logi's nation).

I've tried asking for Key West, but Logi keeps refusing under grounds of "no reason" or something like that. I'd like some form of secure access to the Atlantic, so....

Requests: Thanks for the modification to the Arkansas: Me gusta. Everything else with the rivers looks :) to me. If anything, maybe you could cut out that most easterly part of Louisiana; it'd be more natural for that to be part of the new CSA.

For the Atlantic options, I see three:

Option numero uno: Texas controls Key West, and maybe a few of the northern Bahamas.

Option numero dos: Texas controls Cozumel, and from there a sea route to the Swan Islands and the Islands de la Bahia. From there, a sea route leads to the ABC islands, also controlled by Texas, which leads to the islands of Trinidad and Tobago, also controlled by Texas. I prefer this one.

Option numero tres: Canal across northern Florida, controlled by the "Seminole Nation", with independence guarenteed by Texas and a mod nation.

[Logi]

There is no in-game resason for you to hold Key West, but if we have to, I would allow Key West. Your options are now asking for getting more and more islands, I see.

[Korpen]

I'm not really happy about that at all. It's putting Texas in the classical Germany situation. (France being a major enemy to the south, Germany being Logi's nation).

When you say "Germany being Logi's nation" do you mean the UK and not Germany?
Even then you would have far better sea access then the Mediterranean states. But I might have missed something, would be interesting if you could explain the reasoning behind your argument for us who are less familiar with the situation.

[Blooded]

Hello,

I am not sure if I am allowed to be California or not yet, but I have some possible alternatives for borders in the southwest. Most of my ideas have come from OTL departures around 1847ish with Mexican-American War resolutions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo
See map for Alta California and Republic of Texas borders.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Territory
This southern borderline would offer some nicer areas(better climate) of settlement for snip.
-------
The main idea I am working on for California is based on a more militant and better funded LDS (Mormon) move westward after the events in Illinios. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illinois_Mormon_War#The_.22Mormon_War_in_Illinois.22_and_the_Mormon_Exodus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Deseret
With the small European population (7,000ish) of California at this time, I propose that the Mormons push into California in far greater numbers(creating settlements in Utah/Nevada/New Mexico along the way). With the key control around Yerba Buena (San Francisco) by Samual Brannan. If Brannan had notified the LDS leaders of the 1848 discovery of Gold rather than publishing the find. Perhaps most of the gold would have found its way into LDS Church coffers(many ways this could have been done). Thus, further boosting control of California and perhaps paying the Mexican Government the $15,000,000 settlement offered to the USA  from the Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_Buena_(town)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Brannan

Whatcha think?

[miketr]

A canal across Florida makes zero economic or even military sense.

[TexanCowboy]

Sorry, UK being Logi's nation...

I'd just like a way to avoid being penned to the Gulf. If there's a way that this can be accomplished without islands, etc.....please tell me.

Most of those are islands that you wouldn't be holding on option number 2, Logi, and I'd be holding in "protectorite" form such as Zanzibar was.

[snip]

I would be amendable to taking the whole of my home state back ;D. Remember, most of me population is going to be Russian. We done mind the cold ;D

[Guinness]

I am not sure if I am allowed to be California or not yet.

I've created a locked and stickied thread so I can keep track: http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5562

Blooded: you are penciled in to California. Fell free to discuss territory with Snip and whomever else.

Tex: Does S. Florida and Cuba being an NPC help your concerns?

[Korpen]

Sorry, UK being Logi's nation...

I'd just like a way to avoid being penned to the Gulf. If there's a way that this can be accomplished without islands, etc.....please tell me.

Well, the first question would be to what extent you feel a need to have large forces outside the gulf in wartime? Any tiny island base around Florida would be cut of and most likely destroyed in a war in any case, and in peacetime the need for it would be minimal..

[TexanCowboy]

Guinness, it would help, a significant deal. I could live with it if the northern Bahamas were part of the same NPC as well.

BTW, would anyone mind if I had a "Zanzibar" style protectorate over Cozumel at the beginning of the game; say that they resisted colonization or something like that?

[Logi]

In other words you want me to be made of two parts with a odd wound in the middle as if someone grabbed the middle and forcibly pulled it out.

Well do what you want then, I won't be playing.

[Guinness]

In other words you want me to be made of two parts with a odd wound in the middle as if someone grabbed the middle and forcibly pulled it out.

Well do what you want then, I won't be playing.

I'm sorry, I thought the PM from a couple of days ago was definitive, so I've already been laboring under the assumption that you weren't playing. The issues we're presently discussing here are examples of the several that Charles and I have foreseen for the nation you wanted to construct in the Caribbean. If you are choosing to stick to the idea you simply must play a nation situated in the Caribbean or not at all, I'm afraid we're at an impasse.

[Korpen]

Guinness, it would help, a significant deal. I could live with it if the northern Bahamas were part of the same NPC as well.

BTW, would anyone mind if I had a "Zanzibar" style protectorate over Cozumel at the beginning of the game; say that they resisted colonization or something like that?

I am still asking the question, military any such forward bases would be of no sustained use in a armed conflict, just look at what happed to tsingtao.

[Logi]

I must play an island nation. Unless there is another one available, I would rather not play at all. I have absolutely no interest in the land portion of this sim anymore. After playing the RRC, I have really lost interest with land warfare.

Since the Carribean is the only place so far that was not decided NPC only, it is naturally the only place left for me. Since all other islands have been sealed off.

If you want, I can give a slice of the Yucatan.