North America Buildup

[Carthaginian]

How about the Winnipeg River between L. Winnipeg and Lake of the Woods, and then the Rainy River to L. Superior?  The latter's part of the current international border.

Awesome, Rock.
That'll be it, then. I'll fix the map tonight, and that should to it- till we decide to expand into the Plains. :D

[The Rock Doctor]

Rivers won't work well for borders out there.  You'll have to just keep going until you hit the Continental Divide.

[Carthaginian]

Rivers won't work well for borders out there.  You'll have to just keep going until you hit the Continental Divide.

Well, we're having to do a bit of artificial limiting here- as Charles wanted the Plains to be open and uncontrolled (and I kinda like the idea myself) I just picked the largest natural formations in the area and decided that they mark 'Extent of Total Control' for my government. There might be some settlement beyond those landmarks, and some of it might be very loyal to my government... but like the 'American' colonists in western Kentucky in 1785, they are not officially a part of my nation.

Rest assured, the 'Drive on the Divide' will likely ensue soon after the beginning of the sim, and more permanent 'borders' will replace these somewhat arbitrary limits.

[snip]

ah, the divide, lucky that I already have the other side locked up ;D

[Carthaginian]

As for culture... WHEN, exactly, is the idea of a 'France' going to bite the dust?
If France survived until the Franco-Prussian war period, then the culture in the Algonkin Confederation will likely be heavily French-influenced. If France died at Waterloo, then there would be less influence and a more native society will survive.

[Guinness]

Right at the moment it seems somewhere during/after the Franco-Prussian war, but what would you prefer?

[Carthaginian]

Right at the moment it seems somewhere during/after the Franco-Prussian war, but what would you prefer?

LOL... I've been out so long, I feel I should let more consistent members work out the history, then work myself into it. I can see things either way: 1.) if France survives well into the 1800's, then the society will be more like 'Cajun' society- a French/Indian creole language, Catholic majority, and a republic government 2.) if France is eliminated in the early 1800's, there would be more Native elements-  Algonkin language with some 'borrowed' words, the Midewiwin is more dominant, and society remains a bit more oligarchical (centered on older warriors and 'medicine men').

[Guinness]

I suspect that it would be easier to make the case that it's industrialized if it's more of a Cajun thing than an Algonkin thing. So there is that.

[Darman]

Right at the moment it seems somewhere during/after the Franco-Prussian war, but what would you prefer?

LOL... I've been out so long, I feel I should let more consistent members work out the history, then work myself into it. I can see things either way: 1.) if France survives well into the 1800's, then the society will be more like 'Cajun' society- a French/Indian creole language, Catholic majority, and a republic government 2.) if France is eliminated in the early 1800's, there would be more Native elements-  Algonkin language with some 'borrowed' words, the Midewiwin is more dominant, and society remains a bit more oligarchical (centered on older warriors and 'medicine men').

My plan for the New England area is based roughly on the premise that the North American English-speaking colonies rebelled against England as OTL and then broke away from the CSA during the War of 1812 when the New England states had threatened to secede.  One change I wanted was the England never took Canada, so the New England colonies and the Quebequois to the north kept exchanging land during the numerous border wars...

[ctwaterman]

We have to be careful as I think our Player of Jolly Old England is going all the way back to the Bretons repulse the Saxons, Jutes, and latter the Normans as well.   That does tend to leave those of us who wanted and Anglo Saxon [Anglish] Speaking nation in the lurch because his England still speaks, Galic.... ;D

[Carthaginian]

ROFFL... Ireland conquered England- I love it!

Guinness - I'll run with the idea of a Cajun-like population, then. As France proper is missing, I will likely find myself serving as a Catholic-interest ally in France's stead. Will be interesting to see how this will all develop.

Darman - I like the constant 'border feud' idea. I'd have enjoyed a longer 'American' coastline along the Great Lakes- ample opportunities for some naval warfare on those lakes! I do think you and I should reach a 'rough consensus' on where we want our mutual border- I'd view the St. Lawrence River as a good place to set things.

[Carthaginian]

Also... now I gotta learn how to design ICEBREAKERS!
*groan*

[ctwaterman]

There is a reason why the US and Canada and the British who controlled it at the time decided after the war of 1812 that peace was the way to go.   Throw a bunch of Diplomats into a smoke filled room give them more cigars the occasional Rum or Brandy ration and let them work out a compromise.  It costs less and even with the odd casualty due to smoke or brandy less lives are spent.

Once the North East Player is smart and Builds the Erie Canal he can move troops and supplies from NYC to New Amsterdam [Albany] and from there to Buffalo right on Lake Erie.   So unless you want to build a Naval Port at Buffalo and another at Rochester and another at say Detroit to be countered by ones in Quebec, Toronto and Hamilton a Naval Arms race on the Great Lakes could prove extremely expensive.

Not that it wouldnt prove highly amusing and entertaining to both play with and watch.  But the cost of building shipyards, and stuff on Lake Erie and Lake Ontario where the ships cant support each other well thats just expensive.

[Carthaginian]

But the cost of building shipyards, and stuff on Lake Erie and Lake Ontario where the ships cant support each other well thats just expensive.

That's why I wish we had a greater frontage on the Lakes- if the two of us encircled the whole system, then Michigan/Huron would become a nice little playground.

I understand that it could become very expensive- but who cares about expense if you never planned to be a world power anyway? ;D

[miketr]

We have to be careful as I think our Player of Jolly Old England is going all the way back to the Bretons repulse the Saxons, Jutes, and latter the Normans as well.   That does tend to leave those of us who wanted and Anglo Saxon [Anglish] Speaking nation in the lurch because his England still speaks, Galic.... ;D

With that POD you end up with Britain speaking a Celtic influenced Romance Language.  British Romance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic_languages#History_and_origins

The technical name for the Language was Brythonic.

The Anglo-Saxon invasions in effect resulted in a whole-sale linguistic make over of England.  To be blunt the Celtic language and people of the Island were slaughtered and replaced by a West Germanic Language, Culture and People.

What would be here without that invasion is a again a Roman Influenced Celtic,  Brythonic.  

What is needed is to figure out a POD for Roman Britain to hold on its own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Roman_rule_in_Britain

My own suggestion is that the 3 Legions of the Roman Garrison (or whatever was there in late 300's) never leaves but instead sets up its own British Kingdom.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Roman_rule_in_Britain#383.E2.80.93388

The Roman Governor and his decedents instead declare themselves not Roman Emperors but rather Kings of Britain.  The legions recruit local, maintain something of their tradition and can hold back the pirate attacks from the Picts, Ireland and Germany.  In time they go on to take over Scotland and Ireland.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Maximus

So there would still be Britannia (latin name of the province) it would just be very different.

Michael