North America Buildup

[Desertfox]

*grumble's about "A Study in Scarlet" not being published till 1887...*

You forgot Issac Haight, John D Lee, and John Higbee.

I see your Indians an Angels, and raise you some Navajo, Chiricahua, and Pancho Villa (ok so he's still a boy...). 

[Guinness]

Villa's got to get his pleasant attitude somehow. He was a favorite character for me in N3, though most of the credit for that goes to Carthaginian.

I'm hoping Charles eventually figures out how to throw me some Percy LeVille fan service at some point.  ;D

[Tanthalas]

Issac Haight, John D Lee, and John Higbee are mostly famous for Mountin Medows and since it wont happen in our timeline im not sure they realy matter. Porter Rockwell, Ephe Hanks, and William Adams were all famous as far back as Ohio, and I can avoid excomunicating Adams in my timeline (especialy since I cant find out what he was Excomunicated for)

as for "A Study in Scarlet" he and his sidekick would belong to England anyway.  I want to avoid the mass claimings of people that would technicly belong to someone else we had going on in N3.  So as an example baring anything wierd (like all the Uranium under Utah blowing up) John Browning is MINE (he was born in Utah after all).

[Desertfox]

Well they where still important members of the Mormon Militia.

Oh I don't want Sherlock Holmes, but that story could be very handy for propaganda purposes. But we have to wait 7 years for it to come out.

[Tanthalas]

important but not exactly famous, realy anyone but a Mormon Historian proly wouldnt remember their names today if not for Mountain Meadows.  as for the book its a possibility that it wont even get written in our time line.  Scary isnt it Doyle could already be dead before he writes it for all we know (sadly it will be up to the various players to decide things like that likley in negotiation with players that want to use famous works)

[Jefgte]

Issac Haight, John D Lee, and John Higbee are mostly famous for ...

Isaac Hayes , Tennessee

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Hayes

SHAFT- a famous music


Jef  ;)

[Darman]

Sorry for being quiet guys, been a bit busy lately.  

A couple of things (I know I'm missing some things but you can remind me later):

The map looks fine to me.  I always expected my NER to be small (but a larger concentration of wealth, especially along the coast).  My main agricultural areas will be PA and Ohio probably, with oil and coal coming from PA and WV.  For my government and timeline, they're still under construction atm but I'd like the split of the US to be either a disagreement over the ratification of the Constitution (MA wanted the 10 amendments that became the Bill of Rights and that could be a starting point) or the secession of the northeastern states during the War of 1812 (if there was one) so the NER would become more of a federal republic with more power in the hands of the states.  (I think thats how Germany works, that how it used to work at any rate back in the 1870s-1910s).  

Edit: Apparently I can't count... that was ONE thing, not a couple...

[Tanthalas]

so I decided to make a post with the timeline (1844-1850) and my loose fleet idea (its subject to change)

so first the timeline

06 25, 1844 Joseph and Hyrum Smith are imprisond in Carthage Ohio Jail

06 27, 1844 200 armed men, their faces painted black storm the jail in the late aafternoon and fire   
                    multiple musket shots into the cell the brothers are ocupying.  Both men are killed,       
                    inspite of the fact that 4 men are injured storming the Jail and later aprehended noone
                    would ever be convicted of this crime

09 08, 1844 The Quorum of the Twelve Apostles anounces that after much prayer God has reveald
                    that Joseph Smith III will be the next leader of the church, due however to him only
                    being 12 years of age Brigham Young is apointed Guardian of the Faith.

11 11, 1845 Brigham Young in his Role as Guardian of the Faith instructs Samuel Brannan to
                    Charter ships for the purpose of moving Mormons living in the Eastern New England
                    States to California.

02 04, 1846 Thousands of Saints are forced to flee Nauvoo Ohio by Local Militia crossing the
                     border Into Indiana crossing the Mississippi river into Illinois and traveling to the
                     Missouri River where they establish the temporary camp of Winter Quarters.

02 04, 1846 The ships Brooklyn, Philidelphia, Two Sisters, and Orleans under Charter to Samuel                     
                    Brannan with 958 souls onboard depart New York Harbor bound for San Francisco.

06 04, 1846 The Saints arrive at Winter Quarters and begin making plans for the departure of The
                    Saints to Deseret a new Nation they intend to found in The Great Basin.

07 29, 1846 The ships Chartered by Samuel Brannan arrive in San Francisco.

04 05, 1847 Vanguard Company under the Command of Brigham Young Departs Winter Quarters
                    breaking trail and establishing a route for the main migration to follow.

06 01, 1847 Vanguard Company reaches Fort Laramie a Trading post for The Hudson's Bay
                    Company.  They stop there for several days to effect repairs on several waggons and
                    get many draft animals reshod.

07 24, 1847 Vanguard Company reaches the Great Basin and is met by Sam Brannan who tells
                    Brigham Young of the establishment of the settelment near San Francisco.

07 28, 1847 Brigham Young established a location for the Salt Lake City Temple and presented a
                    city plan to the larger group for their approval.

09 17, 1847 Brigham Young and other selected members of the vanguard company returned to
                    Winter Quarters.

12 16, 1847 More than two thousand Saints had completed the journey to the Salt Lake Valley as it
                    was now known. Several hundred, including Young, returned east to gather and
                    organize the companies scheduled for following year.

12 16, 1849 Although numbers will double over the next two years the primary Saint migration is
                    completed Totals are 9,000 in California, and 34,000 in the Salt Lake Valley.

04 01, 1850 the Council of the 12, the First Presidency, and Guardian of the Faith Brigham Young 
                    produce the Document they have spent the last 5 months writing in very plain laguage
                    it lays out the rights of all Citizens and resident Noncitizens of the Dominion of Deseret. 
                    This Document borrows heavily from the Original Constitution of the United States, It
                    however changes many things that the saints viewd as nonfunctional from their
                    experiances in Ohio.  Sets forth requirements for full Citizanship, establishes the 
                    Morman faith as the Church of Deseret, and Names Joseph Smith III First 
                    Protector of Deseret, Defender of the Faith, and Prophet of the church. (ill post the
                    constitution later for anyone interested)


and the loose fleet Idea basicly im trying to figure out why at this point I would need a Navy, but I came up with a general layout

1864 2 CDBBS layed down (4X10" or so)
1865 2 Large CDBBs layed down (4X11" or so) technicly capable of ocean operations (Although I dont want to ride on em at sea)
1869 2 CDBBs layed down (basicly improved versions of the first type)
1870 2 Large CDBBs layed down (improved versions of previous large CDBBs)
1874 2 CDBBs (6X10" AQY)
1875 2 Large CDBBs layed down (final improvement on Large CDBBS)
1879 not sure yet
1880 2 Large CDBBS AQY Breach Loading guns (6X11" likley) switch to Barbettes

like I said thats realy rough on the fleet, and I may decide to change it based on what the rules say, I havnt figured out what to do about Cruisers and light ships just yet (I have several simmed but IDK if I would build them)

[Carthaginian]

Looks like Charles lost a lot of turf in the Mississippi Valley there.
Might need another NA map.
http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/RandalthorPK/N-America-N4-2-disputed.png

This one reflects a lot of the discussions we were having.

[Tanthalas]

sadly it was regected out of hand by several people.  atleast for Deseret and Mexicos Border the last one guinness posted was to be considerd Final (DF and I negotiated a little on it but there was no reason to change the border)

[miketr]

mike, which map of Europe did you use? At least concerning my (German) borders you should take a look here (or that, so far unanswered, PM I sent you some time ago).

I can put that in easy enough.

Michael

[miketr]

sadly it was regected out of hand by several people.  atleast for Deseret and Mexicos Border the last one guinness posted was to be considerd Final (DF and I negotiated a little on it but there was no reason to change the border)

Anyone have a link to the one Guinness posted?

I will work more on the maps tonight.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

sadly it was regected out of hand by several people.  atleast for Deseret and Mexicos Border the last one guinness posted was to be considerd Final (DF and I negotiated a little on it but there was no reason to change the border)

Anyone have a link to the one Guinness posted?

I will work more on the maps tonight.

Michael

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm18/mmichael453/Navalism%204/N-America-N4-3.png

thats the last version he posted in the Thread, there apears to be some disagreement over the Texas, CSA, and USA borders however (even though noone botherd to post their complaints in the thread)

[miketr]

Are the objection such that people can't deal with the map as is?  Its ALT / Fantasy setup.  Minerals, Oil, etc do not really matter where they were historically and you all have the same pop / economy?

I am going to go with this map unless I get agreements from both parties that they accept movement of borders.

Michael

[Tanthalas]

I belive many of the objections have been worked out, and there will not be any changes to the map.