North America Buildup

[ctwaterman]

Other then the fact that Illinois is probably very sparcely settled in our Time Line as its not yet a part of any country you might simply want to move the Migration back to where the Mormon Church was located I believe in Ohio or PA.

[TexanCowboy]

Yeah, I gotta agree with Charles here. Move the starting point back; only thing I see that needs to be done.

On the map issue, does anyone have any objections to the last one? (Besides snip and his Rocky Mountain issue).

[Desertfox]

The problem I see, if Illinois is very sparsely settled, then the Mormons never leave there. There has to be a reason for them to leave Illinois, or else Deseret would be in the Great Lakes area.

[TexanCowboy]

Hostile Indians works well enough for me.

[Valles]

If the Great Plains tribes have survived into the modern era, then it's likely that they have something going for them that they didn't OTL - beyond the absence of an actual United States.

Combine the known military virtues of the 'barbarian' nomadic tribesman - case in point, the largest single empire ever - with any of the various 'unification' or 'mutual defense' efforts that never quite got off the ground OTL, and it's quite possible that they could've been the terror of the plains even up to 'the current day'.

After all, I sincerely doubt that the confederated tribes are going to be any less flexible, accurate, or woodswise than the Boers were, and look at the time the British had dealing with them.

[TexanCowboy]

Valles; the only reason they collasped is BECAUSE of the United States and people and railroads pushing into tribal lands. None of us (well, besides Texas and the Comanche/Apache) have had to deal with Great Plains tribes yet; due to slower population growths across the board, and nobody wanting to push west/north/south into the plains yet, the "Vast American Desert" that nobody has discovered can produce crops yet. Where are those that want the plains for themselves? They don't exist, or if so, they're populating our own frontiers such as Oklahoma, Kentucky, Ohio/Indian, Ontario.

There still is a vast amount of infighting amongst them, and it's called the "Indian Confederation" for filler; in reality it's 6-7 tribes, with no set borders, fighting against each other.

[Tanthalas]

1834 Ohio how is it for settled at that point?
1838 Missouri isnt any more settled is it? As to the Natives, OTL Mormons generaly got along with them remember we belive they are the Decedants of the people in the book of Mormon.  They ar our Little Brown Brothers and Sisters to be loved, Cherished and brought to the true Faith not exploited and conqoured.  Im dealing with 20K+ people in 1846 (membership in the church so that would only be everyone over 12 years old.)

Im more than willing to change my jump off point if someone can offer me a location that will work.  However interesting tidbit, Chicago in 1846 OTL had a population of 14K Navuoo had a Population of 11K with surounding Mormon Comunitiws almost as large.  Mormons were actualy the bulk of Illinois population LOL

as to the map im working on my timeline but I may need a minor change to the north of the map ill make it once I finish the timeline up to 1880 (ill post the whole thing today) and post the changed map for aproval.

[TexanCowboy]

Missouri won't be settled at this point in time, and neither will Ohio.

[Tanthalas]

Missouri won't be settled at this point in time, and neither will Ohio.

... which leaves me wondering why my mormons are moving, I have to get Joseph Smith Murderd, its critical both to my timeline and the development of the church OTL (People like a Martyr makes em all determind).  So what is the furthest west state that would have a population equivilant to Illinois in 1844? say 40K people (so my 20K mormons in the state are at best on Parity with everyone else)

[TexanCowboy]

Ask Dar, but I would assume someplace like Ohio/Western Pennsylvania?

[Tanthalas]

*Hokus Pokus Magicus* Navuoo and Carthage vanish from Ill. and reconstitute in Ohio (im blaming the alien space bats).

[ctwaterman]

That works....

The Ohio River Valley is probably well settled Honestly I expect the NER to make Indiana a terretory assign it a governer and start the process for turning it into his next state at the start of the Game.  Possibly Lower Michigan as well... due to the ease of Lake travel and the huge amounts of Timber to be gathered.

Im trying to remember the historical Mormon settlements in PA and Ohio before they moved further west ????

Charles

[Tanthalas]

Palmira New York, Kirtland Ohio, Jackson County Missouri (site of the Jackson County war first time the saints are expelled from a state), Nauvoo Illinois (second expulsion and death of Joseph smith in Carthage Jail OTL) are the places that I have available

Palmira: Where the Church was born, Smith family moves when he is like 16
Kirtland: True Begining of the church, some sort of finance thing causes them to pull a Hotel Alpha.
Jackson County: Not realy sure what brought about the expulsion but the state milita ran them out at gun point.
Nauvoo already coverd this one LOL

[ctwaterman]

Naboo.... have we been watching Star Wars again....  ::) ;) ;D

Joking aside I think you have all locations.

Charles

[TexanCowboy]

Guys, my latest map; is that ok?