WORLD BUILDING THREAD

[miketr]

Greetings I am your host.  In this thread we will be making an attempt to setup the world while the rest of the mod team fights over economics.

A couple of ground rules for us to go over.

1) We would like nations to make sense in terms of history and geography.  Even if we are changing history all over the place we want things to line up.

2) While the players are going to have a great deal of latitude the Moderators reserve the right to VETO things in the interest making the game run smoothly

3) The moderators want people NEXT to each other in geographic terms.  So requests for people in North Africa by themselves, South Central Asia, etc are going to have be shot down.

4) The intention is that each player area (EUROPE, NORTH AMERICA and EAST ASIA) will have a number of weaker NPC powers.  This will give players something to interact with, sell stuff too, trade with, attempt to bully and or annex.  Also each area will be closed off on the land side by powerful land based NPC nations.  For example if we have Mexico as in North America then to its south will be a nation that might be a naval piggy me but is very powerful and will not be possible for Mexico to just Blitz in a RISK like bid to break into South America.  The same will be done in Europe and Asia.

Africa, South America and Central Asia, etc are to be populated with a combination of territory open for colonization and failed former colonies now independent nations if of a weak and unstable sort.

5) DA BLANK MAP Thanks to SNIP for helping me with it.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/848/largeblankmap.png/

Player	Pick-1	Pick-2	Pick-3	Pick-4	Pick 5	Pick 6
Valles	Japan-Korea	Pacific-NW	Russia	China
Miketr	Balkans-Turkey	GB	Northern Germany	East Asia
Snip	Pacific-NW	GB	Israel	Philippines
P3D	Hungary-Dalmatia	Japan	Super-Texas	France
Darman	New England	Denmark	Taiwan	GB
Nobody	Germany	East Coast	SE Asia	Europe
Kaiser Kirk	Persia	GB+Brittany	Norse-Kingdom	Persia	California	Seven Tribes (US South East)
Logi	Caribbean Islands	Scandinavia	Japan/Korea	North East US
TexanCowboy	Frisian Empire	Novgorod/Scandinavia	Texas	Latvian Empire
Korpen	Nordic Nations	Australia	Newfoundland	GB
Jefgte	ANY
Desertfox	Mexico
Delta Force	Austria-Hungary	Japanese Empire	North East US	Western US
PyscoWard	Philippines
Walter	Japan	Canada	Netherlands	Argentina

Rough placement of people (NOT SET IN STONE)

Europe
Miketr   Balkans-Turkey
P3D   Hungary-Dalmatia
Nobody   Germany
Kaiser Kirk   GB+Brittany
Korpen   Nordic Nations
Jefgte Iberia

North America   
Desertfox   Mexico
Logi   Caribbean Islands
Snip   Pacific-NW
Darman   New England
TexanCowboy   Texas
   
Asia
Valles   Japan-Korea
PyscoWard - Philippines

We need one person in Western Europe and Jefgte said he was willing to take anything so we could put him in France, Italy or Iberia to fill in the hole there.


Here is an example set of what we are looking for from people, IE IT IS NOT CANON AT ALL BUT AN EXAMPLE!


Guinness - English Speaking America (south)
DesertFox - Mexico (presumed first choice)
Logi - Lower Florida, Cuba, the Caribbean
Snip - Pacific Northwest
Darman - English Speaking America (north)

N. America NPCs: California-Nevada, The Texas Republic, The Iroquois Confederation, French N. America, The Great Plains (Aka Sioux Lands), Unsorted lands in Central America who aren't Mexico

Sketch back story:

N. American history is largely as OTL until the French and Indian War (the 7 Years War in Europe). Unlike OTL history, the war in N. America went quite a bit better for the French. The result is the French hold on to all of Quebec, and the lands north of Quebec, formerly held by the British are ceded to the French. In return the British receive claim to all formerly French lands south of the Ohio River and east of the Mississippi River, with the exception of a parcel east of the Mississippi near Baton Rouge. The British fare better in the negotiated peace to the south, acquiring Spanish holdings north of the James River in OTL Florida. Spain continues to hold the Florida peninsula south of that point.

The French and British both assent to recognizing the Iroquois Confederation's holdings as approximately OTL Indiana and Illinois. Many members of Iroquois tribes migrate west from their traditional territories in Western New York as a result.

The war was extremely costly, and the French and British both seek to refill their treasuries by taxing their North American colonies. The resulting crushing taxes in both the British and French held leads to widespread dissatisfaction and unrest. This flashes over first in the British colony of Massachusetts, where by the 1770s a state of open revolt exists. British regulars are defeated at Lexington and Concord and later at Bunker Hill. Eventually delegates from northern English speaking colonies of MA, RI, CT, NY, NJ, PA, and DE convene in Philadelphia to sign what they called the Declaration of Independence, but what would become known as the Philadelphia Declaration, affirming their right to self rule.

To the South, colonists in the colonies of MD, VA, NC, SC, and GA are equally dissatisfied, but a British landing and show of force in Charleston deters their participation in Philadelphia. Southern colonists begrudgingly march in their Militias north under orders of British regulars, with a Virginian named George Washington as the ranking Continental. The combined British and Southern army is defeated in a series of running battles starting outside Georgetown, MD by Northern forces commanded by Nathaniel Greene and his second in command, Benedict Arnold. The British never come close to their goal of taking Philadelphia, and the war settles into a stalemate along a line just south of Gettysburg, PA.

The British, menaced by renewed war in Europe with the French and their erstwhile Spanish allies cannot commit sufficient forces to North America to end the stalemate. Southern Colonists taste for war, never strong, disappears, and the British N. American Army is plagued by desertion. Eventually, King George III is forced to accept a negotiated peace, cemented at the 1778 Treaty of Boston.

The British, shackled with war debt, and in a strategically tenuous position in Europe and elsewhere, effectively withdraw from N. America. The southern colonies remain nominally loyal to the crown well into the 19th century, as greater and greater freedom is granted them by a series of acts of devolution in parliament. Officially it is the policy of the United States of New England that they remain at war with the Southern Colonies, and in reaction the states of MD and VA pull together in an explicit treaty of mutual defense, which would eventually be extended to all of the Southern colonies. Finally, around 1815, the Southern States appeal for true independence from the Crown in London, which is granted. The Confederate States of America is born, it's first capital in Charleston, SC.

Meanwhile Spain, dominated as they are by the French and French interests, and having already lost control of large sections of South America, begin losing their grip on their North American holdings. First to go is New Spain, which takes on the national name "Mexico", and encompasses initially all of OTL Mexico in addition to OTL Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and parts of Colorado. The Mexicans declare themselves to be a Republic, but are in reality a dictatorship. Soon after the rest of the Spanish empire in the Western Hemisphere fractures completely. The territories of Florida, Cuba, and the West Indies pool together for mutual defense, though in reality the entire area is sparsely populated.

Spain's disintegration makes French holdings in N. America tenuous, and the French fear British reapproachment with it's colonies. The American southern colonies, not yet one nation, cooperate in mounting expeditions west into the OTL states of AL, MS, TN and KY. The USNE continues to menace their borders with Quebec. Eventually, the French choose Quebec over their southern colony of New France, and cede those lands to the Southern states in a series of land sales, resulting in GA, NC, and VA gaining lands across the Mississippi, and a new flood of settlers west, eventually settling as far as Texas.

By 1840, Texas is majority English speaking, and feeling a greater affinity to the CSA than to Mexico, enter into open revolt. With military aid from the CSA, Texas declares it's independence. 7 years later gold is discovered in California, and the weak and distant government in Mexico City cannot resist overland and overseas migration, largely from the USNE and CSA to the area around San Francisco. Soon enough the population of California explodes and by 1855 California declares it's independence, again backed by military aid from the CSA, but this time also with the tacit support of the USNE government in Philadelphia.

To the North, the pacific northwest has been slowly colonized by the Russians, but other strategic interests eventually lead to the stream of people and support from Russia being cut off. The discovery of gold in the Yukon in the 1890s brings on a second gold rush. Russia, which had more or less neglected it's North American possessions becomes interested again, but the massive influx of immigrants across the continent from the CSA and USNE, as well as from the south in California swells the Yukon's population, and eventually they too sue for their independence.

There's a lot more history here involving canals and railroads, a somewhat less industrialized USNE than we'd expect OTL, and a somewhat more industrialized CSA, etc. etc. but fast forward to the 1880s...

By 1880, the Iroquois and Sioux are feeling the pressure from the east. The USNE's population has exploded, but the amount of farmable land has become limited, leading to a feeling that the nation must expand further west. To the South, the southerners maintain the tenuous peace with their northern neighbors, but also warily eye Florida and Cuba and their vast sugarcane fields, citrus farms, and numerous pirate havens. Mexico, under more nationalistic and aggressive leadership has made it it's stated policy objective to retake California and Texas. To the west, millions eke out an existence extracting precious metals from the mountains, while both the English and Spanish speaking California and Russian and English speaking Yukon rapidly industrialize.

[Guinness]

So I think, maybe, if we can all agree on the general "who goes where" part of this exercise, we can then break up and go work on specifics by region/continent. So I'd go work with the Norte Americanos, P3D would go work with the Europeans, etc. to flesh out details of back story, borders, etc. When we get to that point, we'll start threads for each of Europe, N. America and Asia. This will help us parcel the work without it getting too messy (I hope). For spots where the three units need to interface, the mods + Mike and P3D* will hash that stuff out.

BTW: I really think we need one if not two more Asian countries. We still need to slot Charles somewhere, but that leaves us needing another one. Food for thought.

*(A team I hereby christen unimaginatively the Nverse Four Steering Group, aka the N4SG for future reference).

[miketr]

So with picks out in the open is there any interest in people moving around a bit?  People that have NOT spoken up please speak up?

Also to clear up the plan is that there will be 4 MOD nations (P3D, CTWATERMAN, GUINNESS and MIKETR) that will be stronger than the players.  In effect part of the MOD nations function is to prevent people from blitzing the weaker nations at the get go.

Player nations are to be same economic strength.

EDIT:  YAH ME MIKE SPEAK ENGRISH GOOOD! RAH!

[TexanCowboy]

I'm willing to move to Europe with the Frisians, if possible....

One Question, how is Texas an NPC and my nation at the same time?

[Logi]

To the South, the southerners maintain the tenuous peace with their northern neighbors, but also warily eye Florida and Cuba and their vast sugarcane fields, citrus farms, and numerous pirate havens.

Wait what? Just to make sure, does that make me something of a backwater nation? Pirate Havens seems to signal that to me.

I was hoping for a bit more industrialization and economic strength (granted not manpower heavy). ??? Not something like Ireland in N3.

[miketr]

Logi & TexanCowboy

Here is an example set of what we are looking for from people, IE IT IS NOT CANON AT ALL BUT AN EXAMPLE!

[Logi]

I thought so, but just wanted to make sure.

[snip]

I have been toying with kitbashing/completely making up a culture for the NW, would that be an acceptable thing due to my relative geographic isolation?

[Guinness]

Tex: I just missed you in the example.

[Guinness]

I have been toying with kitbashing/completely making up a culture for the NW, would that be an acceptable thing due to my relative geographic isolation?

Probably. The idea is that continental/regional history would be a group exercise.

[Korpen]

Rough placement of people (NOT SET IN STONE)

Europe
Miketr   Balkans-Turkey
P3D   Hungary-Dalmatia
Nobody   Germany
Kaiser Kirk   GB+Brittany
Korpen   Nordic Nations
Jefgte Iberia

North America   
Desertfox   Mexico
Logi   Caribbean Islands
Snip   Pacific-NW
Darman   New England
TexanCowboy   Texas
   
Asia
Valles   Japan-Korea
PyscoWard - Philippines

Did you forget to place Walter?

[Guinness]

We haven't placed anybody. The summary list of regional requests predates hearing from Walter I think.

[miketr]

What Guinness said.

A quick question for people.

Since we have like ZERO real interest for Asia and everyone that is interested wants to play Japan would people with a Asia pick be willing to MOVE out to North America / Europe?  That or we NEED people to make picks in asia OTHER than Japan.

Michael

[Walter]

Well, you could always dump me in China. :) Forgot about that.

[Valles]

Well, let me go through my decision-making process:

- 'Oooh, I can use a language and culture I know about ahead of time! I'll pick Japan!'
- 'Hmmm, as a backup, if I'm going to force something actually original down the boring ones' throats I'll need to pick an area that could be a culture hearth, but both of the ones I can think of are in South America and thus blocked off for 'colonist's privilege'. The valley of California might do pretty well... but the Willamette has a nicer climate so I'll go with that as a first pick.'
- 'Europe, how boring. Where can I do something interesting... Ottoman Empire? Well, maybe.'
- 'Well, China's close to my first pick, and it has a lot to work with...'

So, given the way the setup structure has already dictated at least one significant compromise? No, I will not volunteer to move.