Messing around with an early Pre-Dreadnought

[Valles]

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, Sandeii no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   13,123 t light; 13,932 t standard; 14,856 t normal; 15,595 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 65.62 ft x 22.97 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 20.00 m  x 7.00 m

Armament:
      3 - 11.81" / 300 mm guns in single mounts, 771.62lbs / 350.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      12 - 7.87" / 200 mm guns in single mounts, 220.46lbs / 100.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
     12 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in heavy seas
      12 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward
      12 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5,661 lbs / 2,568 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   9.84" / 250 mm     85.27 ft / 25.99 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   3rd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 15.75" / 400 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 14.40 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,663 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   672 - 874

Cost:
   £1.212 million / $4.847 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 655 tons, 4.4 %
   Armour: 6,656 tons, 44.8 %
      - Belts: 3,641 tons, 24.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,464 tons, 9.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,346 tons, 9.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 205 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 1,446 tons, 9.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,235 tons, 28.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,733 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     17,793 lbs / 8,071 Kg = 25.4 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.37
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 72 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.30
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.48

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.809
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 49
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (60 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 67.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 93.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,642 Square feet or 2,289 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 617 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[snip]

Glad to see I am not the only one. On the design itself, I think the inclution of so many 200mm weapons is a bit advanced. Scrolling through Conways, I am lead to believe that a 4-gun main battery and smaller secondaries around 6" or so should be about what we are aiming for. Im in the same boat (pun intended) as Korpen on evaluating the design outside of how it appears to compare with historical examples.

[Valles]

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, Sandeii no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   12,231 t light; 12,856 t standard; 13,744 t normal; 14,454 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 65.62 ft x 21.33 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 20.00 m  x 6.50 m

Armament:
      3 - 11.81" / 300 mm guns in single mounts, 771.62lbs / 350.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 6.89" / 175 mm guns in single mounts, 139.00lbs / 63.05kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in any sea
      8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 50.65lbs / 22.98kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 10.94lbs / 4.96kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 3,920 lbs / 1,778 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 150

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.7" / 400 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   9.84" / 250 mm     85.27 ft / 25.99 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   341.21 ft / 104.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         15.7" / 400 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   3rd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.95" / 75 mm, Conning tower: 15.75" / 400 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 14.56 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,599 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   634 - 825

Cost:
   £1.020 million / $4.079 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 463 tons, 3.4 %
   Armour: 6,286 tons, 45.7 %
      - Belts: 3,640 tons, 26.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,109 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,343 tons, 9.8 %
      - Conning Tower: 195 tons, 1.4 %
   Machinery: 1,446 tons, 10.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,906 tons, 28.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,513 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14,954 lbs / 6,783 Kg = 21.4 x 11.8 " / 300 mm shells or 2.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.15
   Metacentric height 3.4 ft / 1.0 m
   Roll period: 14.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 87 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.806
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 75
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (25 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.25 ft / 3.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 62.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,580 Square feet or 2,284 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 123 lbs/sq ft or 599 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.05
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The original draft of this design called for those guns to be in broadside mounts, paralleling the multiple gun decks of a traditional ship of the line, but I thought that that might've been a bit out of period even for an intentionally flawed 'first draft' design.

Also, the 'extremely heavy secondary battery' factor is something that I'm intending to establish as a characteristic of Shogunate warships.

[snip]

So I found a cross-Pacific Rival then...

Makes sence if that is what you are aiming for, I was simplely comparing the design to historical examples that I had seen. What do you think of the Willamette in my thread?

[Valles]

Less powerful, better protected, and probably a better and more efficient ship overall. A much more 'classic' PDN than the Shuiroi, which is rather odd for, frankly, meta-logical reasons.

In ten years or so, the Shogunate will have adopted 'modern' turret-and-barbette types, and started fielding ships with about the same layout in twins, and it'll be fairly obvious how small a step they'll be from becoming early 'true' Dreadnought types.

[snip]

ya, turret and barrette will make an appearance for me in the design that is two or three down the road from this one.

[Korpen]

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, Sandeii no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

The original draft of this design called for those guns to be in broadside mounts, paralleling the multiple gun decks of a traditional ship of the line, but I thought that that might've been a bit out of period even for an intentionally flawed 'first draft' design.

Also, the 'extremely heavy secondary battery' factor is something that I'm intending to establish as a characteristic of Shogunate warships.

I must say I do fin her a bit too large for the period as well as for what you are getting.
A thought on the armament is that that the 175mm guns are a pretty poor compromise that that point in time, it armour piercing shot is unlikely to defeat the armour of enemy capital ships, while if firing shell they do not do that much a better job then a slightly smaller gun. So I think you could have a more formidable secondary battery with a 10-12 15-16cm guns instead of the 17,5cm ones in the 1880 version, and perhaps increasing in calibre over time.
I also think I would recommend a bit larger main guns for a ship of this size (she is about the same size as the Italia-class which had 43,3cm gun), with only three guns she deserves more then just 30cm guns.

[Valles]

My memory is that the wooden ships of the line from which the Shuiroi Gajou is intended to conceptually evolve carried guns of different weights on each deck, so I'm unwilling to adopt a 'uniform secondary' battery even if it would be more optimal. From my perspective, having design traits that are, in hindsight, screw ups is more 'period' than any detail of gun size.

The Italia class, I discover via wiki, was a 'protected' design, with a barbette and armored deck but no actual belt. Accepting that the Gajou needs to maintain its belt to some degree if it's to match the 'face shields' protecting its secondaries, but noting that those secondaries are confined to a relatively limited section of the overall hull's length, I come up with a rough guesstimate of...

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, Sandeii no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   10,784 t light; 11,320 t standard; 12,158 t normal; 12,829 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 65.62 ft x 18.86 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 20.00 m  x 5.75 m

Armament:
      3 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns in single mounts, 1,102.31lbs / 500.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      8 - 6.89" / 175 mm guns in single mounts, 143.30lbs / 65.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     8 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in any sea
      8 - 4.92" / 125 mm guns in single mounts, 55.12lbs / 25.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
      8 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 11.02lbs / 5.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 4,982 lbs / 2,260 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 59 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         17.7" / 450 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   3rd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,591 ihp / 4,917 Kw = 14.56 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,509 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   578 - 752

Cost:
   £1.087 million / $4.347 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 618 tons, 5.1 %
   Armour: 4,742 tons, 39.0 %
      - Belts: 1,446 tons, 11.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,304 tons, 10.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,790 tons, 14.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 202 tons, 1.7 %
   Machinery: 1,362 tons, 11.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,932 tons, 32.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,374 tons, 11.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 1.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     12,256 lbs / 5,559 Kg = 11.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.35
   Metacentric height 4.5 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.806
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 36 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (25 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.25 ft / 3.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 24,580 Square feet or 2,284 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 618 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.04
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Establishing just how long the 'belt' protection has to be would mean drawing the design out, which'd be premature at this stage.

[Korpen]

My memory is that the wooden ships of the line from which the Shuiroi Gajou is intended to conceptually evolve carried guns of different weights on each deck, so I'm unwilling to adopt a 'uniform secondary' battery even if it would be more optimal. From my perspective, having design traits that are, in hindsight, screw ups is more 'period' than any detail of gun size.

In a weird way I think that the "screw-up" is more due to foresight en an effect of hindsight. Your choice of armament would be decent for an 1890 design and good for a 1900 one. But in 1880 there has not been the quick-firing  revolution, so the rate of fire for the <15cm guns are going to be almost the same, indifferent of calibre. So I did not mean that an adoption of a single calibre would be desired, but that to increase the output of shot and shell it is needful to increase the total number of guns. If  you would step down 25mm in each bracket (15-10-5cm) you could perhaps increase the number of guns on each deck to 10-12 each. It would also be useful to add some 25mm Nordenfelt vollyguns in the fighting tops for use against borders and torpedoboats.

[Valles]

Hmmmm.

Summat so?

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, Sandeii no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   11,524 t light; 12,094 t standard; 12,973 t normal; 13,676 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 65.62 ft x 18.86 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 20.00 m  x 5.75 m

Armament:
      3 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns in single mounts, 1,102.31lbs / 500.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in any sea
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 26.46lbs / 12.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1880 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5,208 lbs / 2,362 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 59 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         17.7" / 450 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   3rd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 14.59 kts
   Range 5,000nm at 8.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,582 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   607 - 790

Cost:
   £1.153 million / $4.614 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 652 tons, 5.0 %
   Armour: 5,167 tons, 39.8 %
      - Belts: 1,447 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,638 tons, 12.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,871 tons, 14.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 211 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 1,446 tons, 11.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,129 tons, 31.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,449 tons, 11.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     13,331 lbs / 6,047 Kg = 12.0 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.39
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 12.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.860
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (25 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.25 ft / 3.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 75.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 78.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 25,690 Square feet or 2,387 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 128 lbs/sq ft or 626 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.06
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Valles]

Shuiroi Aware to Tsuuseki no Gajou, San-mei Ou no Bakufu Ship of the Line laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   11,777 t light; 12,375 t standard; 14,371 t normal; 15,968 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 65.62 ft x 19.69 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 20.00 m  x 6.00 m

Armament:
      3 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns in single mounts, 1,102.31lbs / 500.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, majority aft
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 88.18lbs / 40.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
     16 guns in hull casemates - Limited use in any sea
      16 - 3.94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 26.46lbs / 12.00kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft
      16 - 1.97" / 50.0 mm guns in single mounts, 3.31lbs / 1.50kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all aft, all raised mounts - superfiring
      32 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns (8x4 guns), 0.44lbs / 0.20kg shells, 1880 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 5,208 lbs / 2,362 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   9.71 ft / 2.96 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   164.04 ft / 50.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 59 % of normal length
     Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         17.7" / 450 mm
   2nd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   3rd:   9.84" / 250 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 17.72" / 450 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7,000 ihp / 5,222 Kw = 14.31 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 14.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,593 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   656 - 853

Cost:
   £1.162 million / $4.649 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 652 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 5,262 tons, 36.6 %
      - Belts: 1,448 tons, 10.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 1,638 tons, 11.4 %
      - Armour Deck: 1,951 tons, 13.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 226 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 1,446 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4,286 tons, 29.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 2,594 tons, 18.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 130 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16,115 lbs / 7,310 Kg = 14.5 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 2.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.42
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 12.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 77 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.24

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.913
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
      - Mid (25 %):      16.40 ft / 5.00 m (8.20 ft / 2.50 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Stern:      8.20 ft / 2.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   10.25 ft / 3.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 75.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 26,785 Square feet or 2,488 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 622 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.06
      - Longitudinal: 0.98
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

What will probably be the final version. The armor layout has the 'deck' sloping up slightly from waterline and the belts protecting only the secondary armament, while the barbettes are left to their own, quite adequate, devices. Note the 'cruising range and speed', an expression of doctrine aimed at strategic response.

[Logi]

Block coefficient: 0.913

Uh.. what? ;D

[snip]

Block coefficient: 0.913

Uh.. what? ;D

glad I am not the only one that noticed that

[Sachmle]

I take it your Japanese-esque people are much larger than the OTL version. I mean, they have to be to move the manually training 6" secondary casemates, what with the 10" compound armor plate on the faces of them.

Oh, and a 0.913 block coefficient? Damn..fat lady.

[Blooded]

C'mon can't you at least try to pretend that SS is not a realistic/perfect program and NEEDS YOU to use some discipline to get reasonable sims.  ::)

A BC of 0.913 is crazy. The 14" Monitor HMS Roberts had a BC of 0.84,(supposedly highest in the Royal Navy) and that was ONLY because it was to be shallow draught and slow speed. Designed speed of 10 knts on 4000ihp or so, they ended up getting 5.7-7.7 knots due to the poor hull shape.

Yours ship is closer to Faa di Bruno, a bombardment raft.

4" deck.... really?  ::)  64 light guns... yet your policy is to ignore the unprotected ends?  ::)

And to top it off a cruise speed of 14knts... wow your designers are really top notch and psychics ta boot.  ;)

This is not a question of reality verses your desired fantasy vessel, but of the physics of the world and SS's limited representation of it. That is why other designers ask that one begins with a real ship and modify to get where you want to go.