Proto-Battleship or Evolved Monitor

Started by snip, May 23, 2011, 03:15:47 PM

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snip

I decided to take a swing at a "big gun" ship circa 1880. Im not sure whether to be proud of this or not...
QuoteWillamette, Oregon Barbette Monitor laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   8,543 t light; 8,841 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 99.06 m x 21.34 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 725.00lbs / 328.85kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline forward
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (1x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline aft
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,450 lbs / 1,111 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm     64.98 ft / 19.81 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:         -            -         11.0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.92 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.846 million / $3.384 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 307 tons, 3.2 %
   Armour: 3,314 tons, 34.9 %
      - Belts: 2,118 tons, 22.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 492 tons, 5.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 588 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 2,066 tons, 21.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,855 tons, 30.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 957 tons, 10.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,458 lbs / 3,383 Kg = 10.2 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.13
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.20

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (10 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (10 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,900 Square feet or 1,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 96 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 127 lbs/sq ft or 622 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.38
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
Wherever I happen to end up, I plan on the first "battleships" being evolution of a line of coast defense Ironclads based on USS Monitor and later USN ships of the same type. This seems suitable for that role, as it is a hideous hybrid that the next design will fix and make into a proper barbette battleship. Thoughts?
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Korpen

Quote from: snip on May 23, 2011, 03:15:47 PM
I decided to take a swing at a "big gun" ship circa 1880. Im not sure whether to be proud of this or not...
Armament:
      2 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (1x2 guns), 725.00lbs / 328.85kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline forward
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (1x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline aft
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model


Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 381 mm   260.00 ft / 79.25 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm     64.98 ft / 19.81 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Upper:   5.00" / 127 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   6.00 ft / 1.83 m
     Main Belt covers 123 % of normal length

Wherever I happen to end up, I plan on the first "battleships" being evolution of a line of coast defense Ironclads based on USS Monitor and later USN ships of the same type. This seems suitable for that role, as it is a hideous hybrid that the next design will fix and make into a proper barbette battleship. Thoughts?
I think you could lose the ends and upper belt armour, both of them are too thin to stop rounds from big guns, main belt could be thicker as well. I also think you should increase the deck to at least 75mm to protect buoyancy.
Card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club.

snip

Tweeked a bit. End belts retained due to concerns about little guns shooting up the ends (this is way before AoN became acceptable). Guns tweeked to bring them into line with the guns that I am thinking about useing (11"-13"-15").
QuoteWillamette, Oregon Barbette Monitor laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   8,557 t light; 8,841 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 99.06 m x 21.34 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
      2 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (1x2 guns), 550.00lbs / 249.48kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline forward
      2 - 8.00" / 203 mm guns (1x2 guns), 200.00lbs / 90.72kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbette
     on centreline aft
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,100 lbs / 953 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   18.0" / 457 mm   211.25 ft / 64.39 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   8.00" / 203 mm   113.73 ft / 34.66 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         11.0" / 279 mm
   2nd:         -            -         11.0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.75" / 70 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.92 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.811 million / $3.244 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 265 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 3,447 tons, 36.3 %
      - Belts: 2,053 tons, 21.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 469 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 809 tons, 8.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 2,066 tons, 21.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,779 tons, 29.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 943 tons, 9.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,718 lbs / 3,501 Kg = 13.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.32
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 71 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.11
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 91.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,900 Square feet or 1,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 124 lbs/sq ft or 605 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.25
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Or, a version with a complete 11" MB that lacks end belts but has thicker armor elsewhere on the hull.
QuoteWillamette, Oregon Barbette Monitor laid down 1880
Barbette ship

Displacement:
   8,530 t light; 8,841 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 99.06 m x 21.34 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x2 guns), 550.00lbs / 249.48kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in open barbettes
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   18.0" / 457 mm   211.25 ft / 64.39 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:         -            -         11.0" / 279 mm
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 16.00" / 406 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.92 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.883 million / $3.533 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 352 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 3,288 tons, 34.6 %
      - Belts: 1,716 tons, 18.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 534 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 882 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 155 tons, 1.6 %
   Machinery: 2,066 tons, 21.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,825 tons, 29.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 970 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7,144 lbs / 3,241 Kg = 12.6 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.29
   Metacentric height 4.7 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.6 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 78 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.28

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 61
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,900 Square feet or 1,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 93 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 126 lbs/sq ft or 615 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

And a protected cruiser for escorting these bad boys
QuoteDuglas Fir Class, Oregon Protected Cruiser laid down 1880

Displacement:
   2,888 t light; 3,051 t standard; 3,500 t normal; 3,859 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   331.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 40.00 ft x 17.00 ft (normal load)
   100.89 m / 99.06 m x 12.19 m  x 5.18 m

Armament:
      2 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 3.00" / 76.2 mm guns in single mounts, 10.00lbs / 4.54kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
      4 - 1.00" / 25.4 mm guns in single mounts, 0.50lbs / 0.23kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 842 lbs / 382 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 175

Armour:
   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   2nd:   2.00" / 51 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.25" / 6 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.00" / 51 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 6,500 ihp / 4,849 Kw = 17.98 kts
   Range 3,750nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 808 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   226 - 295

Cost:
   £0.366 million / $1.462 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 98 tons, 2.8 %
   Armour: 385 tons, 11.0 %
      - Belts: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 58 tons, 1.7 %
      - Armour Deck: 327 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 1,303 tons, 37.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,082 tons, 30.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 612 tons, 17.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 20 tons, 0.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,515 lbs / 687 Kg = 16.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 0.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.62
   Metacentric height 2.8 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 10.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.554
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.13 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 52
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.80 ft / 0.24 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Mid (50 %):      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Stern:      9.00 ft / 2.74 m
      - Average freeboard:   9.00 ft / 2.74 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 143.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 67.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 8,841 Square feet or 821 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 90 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 77 lbs/sq ft or 378 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.31
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is cramped
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Korpen

Quote from: snip on May 23, 2011, 03:58:27 PM
Tweeked a bit. End belts retained due to concerns about little guns shooting up the ends (this is way before AoN became acceptable). Guns tweeked to bring them into line with the guns that I am thinking about useing (11"-13"-15").
Actually it is not true that this was before AoN protection become accepted, in fact AoN was pretty much the norm for battleships at this point. Remember that this is before QF guns come into service so lots of small holes is not a major risk.
Card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club.

snip

opps, forgot that little bit of info... :-[

any comments on the designs?
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

TexanCowboy

You should be able to lay down ships of a higher quality by that date.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Collingwood_(1882)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_class_battleship_(1882)

Both of those classes were laid down before 1880, or during that year.

snip

The 1880 Admirals were the ships I based these off of. What makes them inferior to them aside from the guns (I want 11 inchers)?
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

TexanCowboy

Hm, I was looking at the first design, which with only 2 guns is most decisively inferior...although I've seen arguements that a large number of non-QF 6'' guns would be superior in this time period.

P3D

What's the purpose of the 8" guns? It won't have appreciably higher rate of fire than the 12" guns.
The first purpose of a warship is to remain afloat. Anon.
Below 40 degrees, there is no law. Below 50 degrees, there is no God. sailor's maxim on weather in the Southern seas

snip

The second one listed in my second post has a 11" main battery, so its better and will most likely be the ship that I tweek from here out. I have a plan for the evolution of things for once we get started, hence some of my choices here lay the groundwork for those ideas.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

snip

Coles/Erickson turrets instead of barbettes:
QuoteWillamette, Oregon Turret Battleship laid down 1880

Displacement:
   8,530 t light; 8,841 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 99.06 m x 21.34 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x2 guns), 550.00lbs / 249.48kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
   Weight of broadside 2,800 lbs / 1,270 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   16.0" / 406 mm   211.25 ft / 64.39 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   6.00" / 152 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 10,000 ihp / 7,460 Kw = 16.92 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.883 million / $3.533 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 352 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 3,053 tons, 32.1 %
      - Belts: 1,526 tons, 16.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 529 tons, 5.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 882 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 2,066 tons, 21.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,059 tons, 32.2 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 970 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     6,876 lbs / 3,119 Kg = 12.2 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 14.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.23
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.21

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 58
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 98.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,900 Square feet or 1,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 95 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 136 lbs/sq ft or 666 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.91
      - Longitudinal: 2.55
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Korpen

I must say it is hard to give any real critique on the design, as I really have a very foggy idea about the requirements for this period. Especially what sort of armour level that really is required.
It could perhaps be an idea to include an upper belt to protect the guns in the central redoubt in addition to the turrets. She also seems pretty fast, huge weight saving could be made by dropping the speed a knot or two.
I do think she could use some smaller gun to use against torpedo boats and for mounting in the fighting tops, such as the Hotchkiss 37mm or the Nordenfelt 25mm.
Card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club.

snip

From the designs that I have seen in Conways, thick armor was typical of the period, but it was most likely Harvey or other non-KC types.

Slowed it down to 15 knots and upped the armor a bit more. Also added on the 3.5lb and .25lb guns for use against smaller targets.

QuoteWillamette, Oregon Turret Battleship laid down 1880

Displacement:
   8,528 t light; 8,841 t standard; 9,500 t normal; 10,027 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   330.00 ft / 325.00 ft x 70.00 ft x 26.50 ft (normal load)
   100.58 m / 99.06 m x 21.34 m  x 8.08 m

Armament:
      4 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (2x2 guns), 550.00lbs / 249.48kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turrets
     on centreline ends, evenly spread
      6 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns in single mounts, 100.00lbs / 45.36kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, all amidships
      8 - 2.00" / 50.8 mm guns in single mounts, 3.50lbs / 1.59kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
      8 - 0.75" / 19.1 mm guns in single mounts, 0.25lbs / 0.11kg shells, 1880 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, 4 raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2,830 lbs / 1,284 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 75

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   18.0" / 457 mm   211.25 ft / 64.39 m   10.00 ft / 3.05 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.0" / 305 mm   8.00" / 203 mm            -
   3rd:   6.00" / 152 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.00" / 76 mm, Conning tower: 12.00" / 305 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 6,500 ihp / 4,849 Kw = 15.14 kts
   Range 3,000nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1,186 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   480 - 625

Cost:
   £0.785 million / $3.140 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 355 tons, 3.7 %
   Armour: 3,650 tons, 38.4 %
      - Belts: 1,716 tons, 18.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 936 tons, 9.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 882 tons, 9.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 116 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,343 tons, 14.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 3,180 tons, 33.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 972 tons, 10.2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,942 lbs / 4,056 Kg = 15.8 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 1.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.16
   Metacentric height 3.8 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 15.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.25
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.47

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.552
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 18.03 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 5.00 ft / 1.52 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Stern:      11.00 ft / 3.35 m
      - Average freeboard:   11.00 ft / 3.35 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 74.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 69.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 15,900 Square feet or 1,477 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 142 lbs/sq ft or 692 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.59
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon

Korpen

Quote from: snip on May 24, 2011, 11:30:25 AM
From the designs that I have seen in Conways, thick armor was typical of the period, but it was most likely Harvey or other non-KC types.
At that point compound armour was the best you could get, about 20% better then just steel. So it is most likely what you would want to use. Harvey armour came into use about 1890, with Krupp armour shortly after. Until then it is compound of unhardened steel.
Card-carrying member of the Battlecruiser Fan Club.

snip

One of the designs that would pre-date the Willamette

QuoteKalamath Class, Oregon Ironclad Costal Monitor laid down 1870
Central citadel ship

Displacement:
   1,817 t light; 1,882 t standard; 1,950 t normal; 2,005 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   200.00 ft / 200.00 ft x 50.00 ft x 10.00 ft (normal load)
   60.96 m / 60.96 m x 15.24 m  x 3.05 m

Armament:
      2 - 11.00" / 279 mm guns (1x2 guns), 465.00lbs / 210.92kg shells, 1870 Model
     Breech loading guns in Coles/Ericsson turret
     on centreline amidships
   Weight of broadside 930 lbs / 422 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 50

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   200.00 ft / 60.96 m   8.25 ft / 2.51 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 154 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.00" / 102 mm   4.00" / 102 mm            -

   - Armour deck: 0.50" / 13 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, simple reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 1 shaft, 800 ihp / 597 Kw = 10.30 kts
   Range 1,500nm at 6.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 123 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   146 - 190

Cost:
   £0.189 million / $0.755 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 116 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 412 tons, 21.1 %
      - Belts: 244 tons, 12.5 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 95 tons, 4.9 %
      - Armour Deck: 72 tons, 3.7 %
      - Conning Tower: 0 tons, 0.0 %
   Machinery: 196 tons, 10.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 1,093 tons, 56.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 133 tons, 6.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     1,880 lbs / 853 Kg = 4.0 x 11.0 " / 279 mm shells or 0.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.36
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 12.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.22
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.19

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.683
   Length to Beam Ratio: 4.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 14.14 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 39 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 59
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -5.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Mid (50 %):      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Stern:      7.00 ft / 2.13 m
      - Average freeboard:   7.00 ft / 2.13 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 76.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 71.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 7,818 Square feet or 726 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 117 lbs/sq ft or 573 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.92
      - Longitudinal: 2.13
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is cramped
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

The first Ironclad class aproved by the Oregon goverment. The primary purpace of the class is for costal and harbor duties, and as such the range is not very high. The class is also the proving type for turreted armament within the Oregon Navy. The "monitor style" hull was chosen due to its usefulness with this type of gun mount over ships that carry sailing gear and fears over topweight issues. A slight ram bow is included due to the usefulness of the ram in sinking wooden ships.
You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when solider lads march by
Sneak home and pray that you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Siegfried Sassoon