N4 starting date

[P3D]

While I personally think imperfect battleships and protected cruisers are fun, people are less familiar with these ships. Actually, I would need to do some homework myself and do some readings on this topic. I know that my own first designs of ships from 1880-1892 failed spectacularly on several accounts.

Going straight to designing semi-dreadnoughts and the like on the other hand is somewhat more straightforward, and would lead much less debates on exactly what designs are plausible, what the rules mean - and leave less temptation to use hindsight.

What's your preference?

[snip]

I said 1890-1900, but I would prefer the earlier range of that. semi-dreads can be fun, and I feel that this gives us time to design some quirky ships prior to OTL design standards making an appearance.

[miketr]

PDN's all the way.  Also if we are going to have a race for colonies, etc the earlier the start the better.

Michael

[snip]

makes sense to me, sense that seems to be a large part of what the new rules include. I would be amendable to that as well as a slightly later start.

[Darman]

PDN design: a few heavy guns, lots of medium guns, a few light guns.  Slow speed too.  just my take...

[Valles]

I like the idea of an early starting date, partly because it'd allow the most 'organic' growth of a fleet, and partly because the 'fleet plan' I want to be in position for by the start of the dreadnought era is... very ambitious... and the more leadup I have to get ready for it, the better.

[P3D]

I voted for early start, too.
I was also considering the "1900-1905" tech level, as we could "rush" the all big-gun ship a bit if needed.

[Nobody]

An early start. 1880 sounds good, maybe even before that. However no wooden ships. And we should already have breech loading guns. When was nitro-powder invented?
Also, in oder to prevent quarrels about it we should start without ships and armies(except some guards). So it's going to take a while before the action starts.

[Delta Force]

We could just allow everyone to build a certain tonnage of ships or something like that from the start (no older than 1870 or so). Would be kind of awkward starting with no navies, since whoever finishes the first ships could in theory use them to go destroy the ships of another power while they are still under construction.

Also, muzzleloaders are still being put on new ships in the mid 1880s, and smokeless powder isn't invented until the mid 1880s as well (and for bolt action rifles at that). I am not sure when the first warship with smokeless powder was, but according to Wiki the Maine class battleships of 1898 were the first in the USN to use smokeless powder. Looks like oddly enough naval forces trailed behind in smokeless powder compared to land based rifles and artillery. I understand wanting to bring certain technologies in game faster, and it would seem that you can do that with breechloaders fairly easily (after all, the Royal Navy had used them for a period of time in the 1860s). It would be a pretty big leap to get smokeless powder early, since it didn't exist OTL until 1884, wasn't widely adopted for land forces until 1888, and apparently didn't go to sea until a full decade after that.

[Jefgte]

I vote for 1880, the start of the really Battleships with big guns in citadelle or barbette.


Jef  ;)

[Korpen]

Long time since I was here last...

Also, muzzleloaders are still being put on new ships in the mid 1880s, and smokeless powder isn't invented until the mid 1880s as well (and for bolt action rifles at that). I am not sure when the first warship with smokeless powder was, but according to Wiki the Maine class battleships of 1898 were the first in the USN to use smokeless powder. Looks like oddly enough naval forces trailed behind in smokeless powder compared to land based rifles and artillery. I understand wanting to bring certain technologies in game faster, and it would seem that you can do that with muzzleloaders fairly easily (after all, the Royal Navy had used them for a period of time in the 1860s). It would be a pretty big leap to get smokeless powder early, since it didn't exist OTL until 1884, wasn't widely adopted for land forces until 1888, and apparently didn't go to sea until a full decade after that.

The US was a bit slow to adopt smokeless power; one could put its introduction to 1890 without going completely into the realms of fantasy.

If reset I think that 1890 is the best date for a number of reasons:
It was about then ships with triple expansion steam engines were first being commissioned, 1880 and one is looking at much less sophisticated engines.
It was also when the first hardened armours were developed, allowing for more recognisable designs then the earlier iron and compound armours you would see on an 1880 design.
And as mentioned one could also make a case for the introduction of smokeless powders at that date as well. It also allows for fairly universal introduction of barbette mounts.
So 1890 would allow for all the components in place for designs one is reasonably familiar with.

Early 1880 designs was made with considerations that is quite alien when one is used to thinking about dreadnoughts, so it would either require allot of reading for people, or one would in effect end up with design that would suffer from excessive amounts of hindsight.
The pace of naval technological development for the 15 years after 1880 makes the period 1900-1915 look like stasis in technological development.

[TexanCowboy]

HE'S ALIVE!

[miketr]

Korpen Long Time no See!

[Sachmle]

Nice to see you Erik. I've missed our discussions. Hope there are no hard feelings lingering.

[Korpen]

Nice to see you Erik. I've missed our discussions. Hope there are no hard feelings lingering.

No worries. (Men jag är extremt långsint...).