Conserns about sim speed

[snip]

Always good when we need to do ship ranges or distance required for conquest of a territory

[TexanCowboy]

Comments: A. Partially active

B. In favor of reboot

C. As discussed with snip at some points in the past, preferred reboot time is 1915-1919, for greater convience in determining things like aviation strength, although 1880-1885 would be interesting IF we could all cooperate on sensitive subjects like aviation strength and dreadnoughts.

[snip]

IF we could all cooperate on sensitive subjects like aviation strength and dreadnoughts.

Preferable in a way that does not involve the current tech rules, which are rather clunky IMO.

[miketr]

One thing we need to think about is we need new players.

I would suggest a call out to all the old players to try to see if any of them want to come home.  Especially if we are doing a reboot.

Michael

[snip]

I think that a reboot gives us the best opportunity for both attracting new players and bringing old ones back

[ctwaterman]

A Few Things that spring to mind Reboot or No Reboot....

1.  Kaiser Kirk is correct boots on the ground matter especially as there are countries who have significant need for armies and less for Navies.  Germany Historically and Bavaria in our Sim or even the Mughal Empire which I helped set up.   They dont have over sea territories very little merchant shiping under their own flags and huge interiors with hostile borders.

2.  Geography..... lets KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid] some of the wars have been adversely effected by not having a real world geographical map that the two warring sides could agree upon.  Example look at the Maps from 2nd Rift War.  I looked at the maps figured where the border was on the real world map and launched my Invasion with initial objectives of seizing a pass towards the Zionist Capital and cutting off his northern army in his northern port.  Foxy looked at the maps figured out where he thought the border was and planned his defense and counter offensive accordingly.  We both sent maps to Rocky who I think maybe had his own Idea where the borders where and both Foxy and I were wrong...  It led to alot of confusion as I was almost 200 Km further north then I had assumed.
    2a.  So No If we want Geography no mystical Islands, no avalon, use the real
            use the real world map so when and if a war starts people have maps and
            can calculate the distance from Point A to Point B.

3.  Tech - We need a tech system and the one we have is not bad I have seen worse.   The problem is we ended up with 3 or 4 large tech blocks doing research instead of 1 or 2 Super Powers doing all the research.  We didnt have a Great Britain or a US with huge Industiral and Scientific/Educational advantages.
      3a.  We need to agree on what tech tree we will have prior to any restart.

4.  Wars Slow the SIM down there is no way to escape that.  I was trying to get this to the point that we dont have a never ending series of battles plotted out by the players.  I wanted to Force Players into a more Campaign style.  You give me Orders, troops, ships and a plan.    I may PM you back for guidance, but micromanaging from Washington in an Era of Telegraph will loose you the war faster then it did in Vietnam.
      4a.  Miketr is exactly correct that in this Era or even a bit before the Maori
             vs. New Swiss war would be over the Swiss lost and both sides would
             negotiate the return of the Swiss Capital in return for $X and maybe
             Hawaii.   Otherwise things get ugly and you end up with what we have
             going on right now.  Which could take years to resolve will destroy the
             New Swiss Economy even if they win and will probably bankrupt the Maori
             economy as well.

I am neither for or against a Reboot.  I believe we have a large number of inactive players who have stopped playing because we have been stuck in a war forever.   There are two things that can prevent wars.  And one of them is Coalitions of neutral nations basically saying enough is enough.  Your war is costing us money so it ends now or you fight all of us... :o  Either that or we need a super power like Great Britain who if you little war interfered to much with their trade well they either told you to pack it up and go home or they picked the winner.

[Delta Force]

IF we could all cooperate on sensitive subjects like aviation strength and dreadnoughts.

Preferable in a way that does not involve the current tech rules, which are rather clunky IMO.

I don't really see why we have tech rules at all right now. The great powers did pretty much all of the ship construction (especially of larger ships) and all had a generally similar access to technologies. Instead of having to research technologies, we could just have a date when the technology becomes possible to use.

[snip]

CT: all valid points, but I am just going to focus on this one for now:

Either that or we need a super power like Great Britain who if you little war interfered to much with their trade well they either told you to pack it up and go home or they picked the winner.

I have a idea forming that would help establish some regional power blocks that could help in inhibiting wars (or at least keep them from getting huge). It also helps our problem with having lots of nations unstafted at the high end. Note, I do make some choices that would need to be agreed on with the players of there respective contires as to the exact nature of what will happen, but the general details of my plan are as follows.

1. Europe is stable with France as its Jugernaught, but the Pacific/Asia has none. I think it is big eought to have 2 powers, expecialy if one of them is a primarily land power. So I propose that I be allowed to unify all of China at the end of the Civil War to form one of these block, and that Maori and New Switzerland become the other after the end of the current war (end decided in some quick fashion). This new country would be under Foxy or Valles, with the other moving to a vacant power. This might bring peace and stability to the Pacific region, and allow for some times of peace as everyone recovers from those wars, as well as sending an experienced player to a country that desperately needs a leader. At the same time, this could move the focus of conflicts to the colonial posetion of counties.

2. Declare a global no-war policy for a few gameyears. This is just to allow activity to move very rapidly to revitalize interest.

3. Maybe recond some of the not incredibly important (ie. not Rohan, Maori and NS) geo changes back to real-earth norm. Just to make things a bit easyer to wrap our thoughts/tactics around.

Thoughts?

[Delta Force]

I don't think that distance calculations and climate are such big issues with regards to using fictional maps and having fictional landmasses. If locations are documented and done to scale, then there isn't really any issue with distance calculations. Being off by a few dozen miles or so in the grand scheme of things isn't too bad.

In terms of climate and natural resources and such, the world does follow certain rules. Deserts both hot and cold are found in certain places, as are grasslands, and it is all related to latitudes, distance from the water, and prevailing wind patterns. Geography is also fairly consistent with resource allocations, with fossil fuels being found in locations previously near the equator and with impermeable rock to lock it in. The biggest issue would probably be determining how new land masses affect sea currents, but even then there are likely basic rules. I wouldn't be too worried about those things at all.

[ctwaterman]

In terms of climate and natural resources and such, the world does follow certain rules. Deserts both hot and cold are found in certain places, as are grasslands, and it is all related to latitudes, distance from the water, and prevailing wind patterns. Geography is also fairly consistent with resource allocations, with fossil fuels being found in locations previously near the equator and with impermeable rock to lock it in. The biggest issue would probably be determining how new land masses affect sea currents, but even then there are likely basic rules. I wouldn't be too worried about those things at all.

Ok I will address this one 2 levels.

1.  As a one of the Mods who has to moderate the wars.  Where are the costal towns and coves of New Switzerland, the roads, the rivers where is the defensible terrain other then the mountains Foxy has provided.   

Basically unless each fictional land mass is lovingly and painstakingly filled in with all the details necessary then this creates a serious problem.  And Desert Fox did a great job with what he was able to do.  I own Map Maker Plus for building fantasy worlds and such.  It takes a huge amount of time to detail in even a small province on a map let alone something as large as a sub continent.

2.  As a role player- I started with Italy and looked at the realities of the world around me.  Italy has always been a minor player in the modern world for a few simple reasons.   It has no large natural coal reserves and it has no large natural oil or gas reserves.   At the start of the Industrial age all Italy has is water power and do to the dry season in the summer its steep streams need large damns to provide even most of the year power to water wheels.   

So I decided on what Italy wanted right then and there.  Italy needed access to outside reserves of Oil, Iron Ore, and Coal.   Coal I could purchase from Bavaria if Bavaria was friendly same with Oil from Russia and Romania and Ukraine.  But most of all Italy was looking for a way to move towards energy independence.   This made Italy an aggressor state.   But Italy was small with many potential enemies.  So Italy needed to make friend with its neighbors.

If you look you will see that Italy latched onto the French teat and had no intentions of letting go.  Even though from a domestic point of view the French stood for everything that Italy opposed, republicanism, anti-religious, and well Liberalism.  Italy being staunchly Monarchist, Catholic, and Conservative.   France was big but more importantly they controlled the Suez canal and access to Italys East African empire which provided, Coal, Gold, Ivory, as well as Cattle, Sheep, Goats, and some agricultural porducts.   This allowed Italy to buy foreign Coal and Oil.  But without access to Suez either DKB, or Orange was going to gobble up Italia East Africa.

The Marriage with the Bavarian princes was to settle border disputes with Bavaria making Bavaria a potential ally instead of a potential enemy.  This freed up over 4 Corp of troops for service in North Africa or East Africa.   And then New Zion... poor loud mouthed Anti-Catholoic, anti-Monarchist, agitating New Zion found Oil not to far north of the Burundi Border with Italy.   Well lets just say that Oil Discovery probably sealed the long term fate of New Zion.

But as you can see from a Roleplaying point of view the allocation of natural resources is from my opinion is critical to why nations sometime do what they do.   Why did Great Britain dominate the Merchant trade in the age of steam.  Because Welsh Coal was exported around the world on English Ships meaning Ships English Ships only leaving England could always find a cargo of Finshed products or just coal to be deliverd for resale at coaling stations the world over.

The only other place to get Anthracite Coal good Hard Coal in such quanities is well Western PA and parts of West Virgina.  Everyone else has Brown coal.

I guess my Major Objection has always been how did these Land Masses on Vulcanic Islands develop into huge Economic Powers in under a 1000 years come about and more importantly where are there Coal and Oil comming from ???

And Yes I know Italy controls the 6th largest producer of Oil but nobody knows there is Oil under Libya until the mid 1950's.

[snip]

no comments on the Pacific and Asia power-block proposal?

[Kaiser Kirk]

1. Active
2. mixed towards a reboot.
    2a: Leary of abandoning historical cultures. Not everyone wants to do that work to storyline a full society. Level of effort tends to vary wildly.  Historical cultures are the easy out and come with their own cachet. "Oooh I get to use Lithuanian names... etc.
    2b: A variant might be to role the world back in time and use historical empires say 'Gee, what if Rome and Persia had battleships...'
    2c: Curious as to the perceived value of variant geography.  What's the goal of changing the map?

3. Willing to 'stay the course', but it is a good night for icebergs

4. Good explanation on Italia's growth CT. Much I understood before, but nice to read.   Bavaria's been more reactionary, with other's actions forcing Bavarian reactions. Hasn't gone at all like I planned. 

5. France isn't balancing Europe anymore, Rohan isn't doing North America, and I'm guessing the original united MK was supposed to do Asia.  Having a 'big dog' in the wings to make ominous noises about entering a war has value, but by nature must limit who's running the nation.

[Logi]

5. France isn't balancing Europe anymore, Rohan isn't doing North America, and I'm guessing the original united MK was supposed to do Asia.  Having a 'big dog' in the wings to make ominous noises about entering a war has value, but by nature must limit who's running the nation.

The MK was originally one united country as well, it was specifically split because I wanted to take control of it.

Large blocs of power should likewise limit who is running the nation.

[ctwaterman]

no comments on the Pacific and Asia power-block proposal?

Hmmmm......

A.  Maoria/New Swiss merger isnt going to happen the likelihood of either or both nations comming out as a strong super power are just way way too unlikely.

B.  A unified China would have to fall under the control of single player who is experienced, non reactionary, and most likely a Moderator.   

If you look at France what does France really do in the game ?????  They make threats when there supply of Booze is threatened.   They become enbroiled in plots usually started by someone else and they spend alot of money very very inefficently.

There Population Growth is usually stagnant so realistically a completely unified China would be required to sit back and do very very little.

As an example for some crazy reason when I joined the Game I was offered the Entire Middle Kingdom.   Several things put me off about running such a large country.  One It would be hard to do the story telling that Phoenix has done very well justice.  But the major reason was the Size.....

I looked at China and decided that If I took it China would have spent the next 8 Years say 1913 thru 1922 maintaining a moderate sized but modern army.  Buying Multipule IC and BP as fast as Possible and investing in Foreign Tech purchases.   I may have even shopped out the navy.   The point being China needed to modernize without becomming a terror.

But once that was finished once China had enought BP to support its ambitions China would have looked to Expand 1st as a Continental Power and then as a naval power.  My Middle Kingdom would have looked South for its expansion to both Indochina, DKB Indochina, and Siam realistically with the nearly 100 Corp the MK and RRC have thrown at each other under the control of one person and say only 75 Corp who could have stopped them.

Charles

[Jefgte]

Well...
Many new ideas here.  ???

I suggest to have the map of the world with the same continents, islands same oceans & mountains...
Same big cities & harbors.
Why ? for the distances calculator
That's easier to calculate distances from San Francisco to Lima or Moscow to Roma.

The design of the countries(states) could be completly different.
Without the classic France, Italia, Iberia...
I suggest to have great imaginaries countries with much territories like
North America Rohan
Britania
Inca Empire
Italian Empire (similar to Roma Empire)
Chinese Empire
Japan Empire
Australian Empire
& a few other one...

The limitation of the Countries is neccessary because... we are not too much Players

Just my ideas...

I agree too to restart in 1880 & use exclusively  NAV WEAPONS armaments of 3 countries
USA - GB - GERMANY.
Personnal & exotic guns are finish
That"ll be easier for the futur battle calculation, range, damage...


Jef  ;)