Battleships

[Delta Force]

I noticed a potential issue, in that these ships are too wide to fit through OTL's Panama Canal. Perhaps it is larger in game. Otherwise, I will have to expand it.

Or is this not such a major issue?

[Sachmle]

There are 3(?) Canals here, and I think one (French IIRC) is rather wide.

[Guinness]

We've never stipulated the width of the canals, nor limited any ships based on their width, so assume a ship that is arbitrarily big will fit.

The French Le Grande Canal is a sea level canal and assumed to be quite large in both width and depth. The Colombian Darien Canal, which is more or less the OTL Panama Canal might be expected to have a smaller width and depth, as would the Rohirim canal, following roughly the expected route of planned canals through Nicaragua. We don't specify those limits since we don't specify the French canal's limits. After all, if we're going to have 3(!) canals across the central American isthmus, anything's possible. :)

[TexanCowboy]

The Columbian one is the historical Panama canal metrified. (Somewhat). Each of the locks, which are the defining factor on what we can fit through, are 300 meters by 40 meters, so we have plenty of room on there. Even if this isn't being upheld by the mods, I'd expect that anyone planning to go through the Dairen Canal has ships that meet those specifications....of course, there's two other canals, and they're probably larger....

[Sachmle]

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=43.msg785#msg785

Construction of the canal locks (each 300 m x 40 m) began in 1899 and were largely completed by the end of 1901. Construction of the Gatun Dam began in 1900 and was completed in 1903.  By the fall of 1904, water levels were adequate to allow passage of smaller draft vessels.  However, another cycle of rainfall was necessary to allow deep draft (up to 12.0 m) vessels to transit.

[ctwaterman]

I found hints that the UNK was a partner in one of those Canals but cant determine if it was the Rohan/CSA/New Swiss one of the French one ????  Anyone know for sure...???

[Delta Force]

Do you think it is best to have four 16.5 inch twin turrets or three 18 inch twin turrets? I'm trying to see what kind of guns I should use for the class of ships after these ones.

[Valles]

I'd definitely go with the 16.5"s. The Maori are only ever going to 'scale up' once from their current usage of Confederate-designed 15" 2,000lb, and even there, not by much - 400mm 900kg. Unlike some, I do believe that larger shells and guns bring significant performance benefits if properly designed and loaded, but prioritizing protection to the degree I do imposes some compromises.

Also, I'm a member of the 'less than eight guns might as well not bother' school.

[Sachmle]

I agree on the less than 8 bit. Basically, you need 8 guns to effectively spot fall of shot at range.

[Delta Force]

If new fire control and naval cannons will be finished while a naval vessel is undergoing construction, is it possible to have those new materials be used in the construction when they are finished? I am looking at including 1918 fire control and improved 15 inch guns for the new ships, and they should be done before these battleships will be launched. At worst, I am willing to wait a few months more for finishing out to fit improved 15 inch guns, or worst case install an older mark.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Ship construction Rules to your rescue :

Shipbuilding Technology

In most cases, the technology used in a ship must be completed prior to the half-year in which the ship itself is laid down.

There are a few exceptions, in which a ship's design can be modified without penalty, so long as:

1)  The technology is completed prior to the half-year in which the ship is launched
2)  If the modification adds weight to the design, there is either a "construction reserve" of miscellaneous weight that can be reduced to compensate or simple external fittings (deck mounted weapons) that can be omitted.

These exceptions are technologies that have limited physical impact on the ship, or affect components installed late in the construction of the ship:

Torpedo (above-deck installations only)
Mine Warfare (type of paravanes installed only)
ASW Warfare (type and number of depth charges only)
Night-Fighting
Range-Finding, Fire Control and Gunnery
Radar
Anti-Aircraft Guns

So..yes, Fire control can be whatever you have when it's completed.
But... not the new 15" guns. Those have to be completed before the keel is laid.  Besides you have to design the turret for them as well, and that may not fit the barbette you have, or may have more weight than that section of hull's design load.

[Delta Force]

Could I replace the 15 inch guns and shells with new ones during its first ten year overhaul? If I were to do that, would it just become a refurbishment instead of an overhaul for BP cost purposes, or would it count as doing both of them at once, for 30% BP plus tonnage added?

[Sachmle]

It would just be a refurbishment. Refurbishment includes all the stuff usually done during overhaul, plus the extra.

[Kaiser Kirk]

Refurbishments:

main battery turret/barbettes can be replaced by turret/barbettes of equal or smaller roller diameter or other components allowed during refurbishments.

So I'd guess that means one twin 15" turret is the same as another twin 15" turret.
That would cost 20% + the cost of the turrets.

Remember, if you build a division of 4 ships, then each needs this, and Frankly with the marginal performance increase, I wouldn't think it a good use of a battleship'ss level of resources. While it would be an excuse for a larger refurbishment, those get pricey fast.

[Delta Force]

Refurbishments:

main battery turret/barbettes can be replaced by turret/barbettes of equal or smaller roller diameter or other components allowed during refurbishments.

So I'd guess that means one twin 15" turret is the same as another twin 15" turret.
That would cost 20% + the cost of the turrets.

Remember, if you build a division of 4 ships, then each needs this, and Frankly with the marginal performance increase, I wouldn't think it a good use of a battleship'ss level of resources. While it would be an excuse for a larger refurbishment, those get pricey fast.

Well, the refurbishment would take place sometime in the late 1920s or early 1930s, and fire control and naval artillery will certainly be improved by then. If the Richmond Treaty is still in force at that point, a refurbishment will probably be a better choice than building new vessels since the tonnage cap will still be in place, especially since ships from the 1920s will age much better than the earlier dreadnoughts. It will be silly doing it so young in the ship's service life, but if they are due for an overhaul anyways might as well fully modernize them.