Battleships

[Logi]

Depends on if you're in the Pacific or the Atlantic.

Pacific ships must be faster, Atlantic ships must be sturdier.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Yes, very good comparison - the late standards or the "original" South Dakota will do nicely.
Borys

[Sachmle]

Depends on if you're in the Pacific or the Atlantic.

Pacific ships must be faster, Atlantic ships must be sturdier.

The CSA was using a sorta upgraded version of what the OTL USN was doing. USN had BBs in the Atlantic and ACRs in the Pacific, here CSA has BBs in the Atlantic and BCs in the Pacific. Same concept, better ships.

[Jefgte]

20-23kts. 12-15" belt, 3-4" deck, 13" or larger (up to I think 15.75"/40cm) guns. 4-6" secondary, few 'large' AA (2-4") couple more light AA (0.5-1.5") At least that's my take. Somewhere between 25,000-35,000t depending on nation and job requirements.

Nice & exact résumé

;)

[ledeper]

I believe these are the newest build BBs in the game ,the first two is ready service 1/3 20.

Bb 11 Atlantica,Laid down 1/17
Bb 12 Baltica,Laid down 1/17
Bb 13 Nord See.Laid down 2/17

Ocean Class , Esc Bb laid down 1917 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   35.109 t light; 37.127 t standard; 40.439 t normal; 43.089 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   720,91 ft / 716,86 ft x 98,43 ft x 30,35 ft (normal load)
   219,73 m / 218,50 m x 30,00 m  x 9,25 m

Armament:
      9 - 15,94" / 405 mm guns (3x3 guns), 2.026,91lbs / 919,39kg shells, 1917 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 5,91" / 150 mm guns (6x2 guns), 102,98lbs / 46,71kg shells, 1917 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      2 - 3,94" / 100 mm guns in single mounts, 30,51lbs / 13,84kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      6 - 1,57" / 40,0 mm guns in single mounts, 1,95lbs / 0,88kg shells, 1917 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 19.551 lbs / 8.868 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   462,37 ft / 140,93 m   14,53 ft / 4,43 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   5,91" / 150 mm   462,37 ft / 140,93 m   8,01 ft / 2,44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1,57" / 40 mm   462,37 ft / 140,93 m   29,13 ft / 8,88 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13,8" / 350 mm   9,84" / 250 mm      13,8" / 350 mm
   2nd:   3,94" / 100 mm   1,97" / 50 mm            -
   3rd:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -
   4th:   0,39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 5,91" / 150 mm, Conning tower: 13,78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric cruising motors plus geared drives, 4 shafts, 90.690 shp / 67.655 Kw = 26,00 kts
   Range 10.000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5.962 tons

Complement:
   1.425 - 1.853

Cost:
   £6,827 million / $27,307 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2.444 tons, 6,0 %
   Armour: 14.809 tons, 36,6 %
      - Belts: 4.962 tons, 12,3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 785 tons, 1,9 %
      - Armament: 2.747 tons, 6,8 %
      - Armour Deck: 5.965 tons, 14,8 %
      - Conning Tower: 350 tons, 0,9 %
   Machinery: 3.379 tons, 8,4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13.728 tons, 33,9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5.330 tons, 13,2 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 750 tons, 1,9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     47.382 lbs / 21.492 Kg = 23,4 x 15,9 " / 405 mm shells or 6,8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,17
   Metacentric height 6,5 ft / 2,0 m
   Roll period: 16,2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,661
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7,28 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,77 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 49 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 10,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22,97 ft / 7,00 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Stern:      16,40 ft / 5,00 m
      - Average freeboard:   16,87 ft / 5,14 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 94,2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 119,7 %
   Waterplane Area: 54.598 Square feet or 5.072 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 189 lbs/sq ft or 924 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,00
      - Longitudinal: 1,01
      - Overall: 1,00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Armor Notes:
Main Belt 10 dg outward slope
Deck:
25 mm capping upper belt
100 mm capping main belt
25 mm splinter deck
Misc weigth:
2x F.C. :500 t
L/R W/L :25 t
Seendes Augen 25 t
Star Shell for 100mm AA guns:25 t
Reserve 175 t.

[Guinness]

Carthaginian preferred to build the smallest battleships possible, with an eye mainly toward defending the Confederate coast from afar. When I ran the CSA I was more interested in taking the battle to the enemy, so I ramped up to larger ships with more range.

The last two classes of CSA capital ships, the Enterprise class BCs and the Tennessee class BBs I think illustrate where the CSA was going. The BBs particularly were sort of like standards, with AoN armor. I opted for a little bit more speed. And of course the CSA uses different calibers in general.

I think any nation that signed the Richmond Treaty would have great difficulty building BBs with 18in guns to the tonnage limits, so something with 15", maybe extended as far as 50 calibers, or maybe 16"/45s makes more sense.

[Delta Force]

I kind of am a fan of the coastal battleship for defensive action, since they can trade range and speed for guns and armor, allowing something the size of a heavy cruiser to be able to take on ships of a much larger size on decent terms. Obviously they aren't of use for an offensive fleet, but I might produce normal sized battleships in addition to "light" battleships.

[P3D]

I kind of am a fan of the coastal battleship for defensive action, since they can trade range and speed for guns and armor, allowing something the size of a heavy cruiser to be able to take on ships of a much larger size on decent terms. Obviously they aren't of use for an offensive fleet, but I might produce normal sized battleships in addition to "light" battleships.

Honestly, they are not great on the defensive either. They won't have enough main guns to achieve good patterns, their speed makes them a liability if they operate with faster boats, and the lack of TDS makes them vulnerable to torpedoes and mines. You can's save much machinery going 12kts instead of 21kts, and SS2 itself likes high bunkerage way too much.

[Jefgte]

The dilem with the big BBs is that they are expensive & their lost is a drama.
Medium BB are reasonable.

You could have a good medium BB about 24000t with 3T2x16" & a good protection.

[P3D]

Moreover, an older battleship can do all the missions of a new coastal defense ship. 

[snip]

Moreover, an older battleship can do all the missions of a new coastal defense ship. 

The CSA has quite a few older battleships that would be prefect for this duty. There are some of us who don't have any older battleships from which to draw from.

[Delta Force]

I somehow managed to make this ship have a recoil of 1.08. Does that mean that to fire a full broadside would break the ship's back? It might not be a problem if it can't fire a full broadside as the ship is intended to fight multiple battleships, and since even a half salvo from this ship would equal to or better than most battleships in existence.

Sam Houston, CSA Battleship laid down 1920

Displacement:
   40,500 t light; 44,009 t standard; 46,693 t normal; 48,839 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721.78 ft / 721.78 ft x 111.55 ft x 36.91 ft (normal load)
   220.00 m / 220.00 m x 34.00 m  x 11.25 m

Armament:
      14 - 16.00" / 406 mm guns (4 mounts), 2,500.00lbs / 1,133.98kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 4.75" / 121 mm guns (10x2 guns), 50.00lbs / 22.68kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 1.58" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 2.00lbs / 0.91kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 36,008 lbs / 16,333 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 128

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   460.00 ft / 140.21 m   16.50 ft / 5.03 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 98 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.00" / 51 mm   460.00 ft / 140.21 m   24.75 ft / 7.54 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   14.0" / 356 mm   8.00" / 203 mm      14.0" / 356 mm
   2nd:   3.00" / 76 mm   2.00" / 51 mm      2.00" / 51 mm

   - Armour deck: 4.00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 3.00" / 76 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 42,822 shp / 31,946 Kw = 21.00 kts
   Range 12,000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4,830 tons

Complement:
   1,587 - 2,064

Cost:
   £11.230 million / $44.919 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 3,719 tons, 8.0 %
   Armour: 14,640 tons, 31.4 %
      - Belts: 4,649 tons, 10.0 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 842 tons, 1.8 %
      - Armament: 4,907 tons, 10.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,158 tons, 8.9 %
      - Conning Tower: 84 tons, 0.2 %
   Machinery: 1,497 tons, 3.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 20,244 tons, 43.4 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 6,193 tons, 13.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 0.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     54,574 lbs / 24,754 Kg = 26.6 x 16.0 " / 406 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.05
   Metacentric height 6.5 ft / 2.0 m
   Roll period: 18.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.97
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.23

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.550
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.47 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.87 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 37 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 43
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.69 ft / 6.00 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 132.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,186 Square feet or 5,220 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 260 lbs/sq ft or 1,271 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.60
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

[Valles]

My thoughts:

1. Try adding to the beam to manage recoil, dropping block coefficient to maintain weight.

2. The established 'size jump' for CSA guns is 1.5" - their older capital ships have 13.5" and the newer ones 15"; a further 'step up' would be carrying a 16.5".

3. Personal preference, I'd lose two guns off of the main battery and up the armor. It might well be unfair, but 14" belt and 4" deck feels underprotected for a 40 kton ship.

[TexanCowboy]

Sam Houston, CSA Battleship laid down 1920

Me gusta. :)

[Sachmle]

Bigger looks better, but realistically there is no advantage (at current and foreseeable fighting ranges) for a 16" over a 15", especially if the shell is only 500lbs heavier. Although, looking at the CSA tech, it would be a 16/45. But the earliest you could start designing the gun would be 2/19 and it takes 2yrs to research, so 2/21 before the gun is ready, 1/22 before you could lay the ship down.

Basically, I'm saying use the 15/40 in a twin.