DKB Light Cruiser idea

[Kaiser Kirk]

Btw:
@Snip: I seriously don't know why your ships are going to have such a high range.

I am not keen on ships having fuel %s of 20+. My impression from some sims I tried of USN vessels is that is ahistorically high.
Further- a pet peeve of mine - to me, if you say 17knts cruising, then to me your ship is optimized for that and shouldn't run as efficiently as possible at slower speeds- ..so even if she slows down she still won't be as fuel conservative as a ship optimized for 12-15. For a country without domestic petroleum production, that seems an odd choice.

I'd also say the Dalian might have a deck space issue.  And quite alot of AA. While ships were hit in the war, it seemed of less import than in the rift, though I may misremember. I'd also say the deck is getting to the 'to thin' side.

[snip]

I have done a drawing of the Dalian, and everything fits. the 75mm are not AA guns, they are anti-TB/DD guns with the 50mm being AA. She will most likely be getting quite a few changes made, I just posted what I had for comparisons sake. Laydown is 1923, still time to make changes.

[Sachmle]

450t heavier, but better firepower and deck armor.

KK1921c, Deutsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,325 t standard; 8,601 t normal; 9,622 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.73 ft / 552.00 ft x 56.63 ft x 18.86 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.25 m x 17.26 m  x 5.75 m

Armament:
      10 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (5x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, majority aft, 3 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 19.84lbs / 9.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 1,075 lbs / 488 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   12 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   394.52 ft / 120.25 m   11.98 ft / 3.65 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,347 shp / 52,479 Kw = 31.01 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,298 tons

Complement:
   446 - 580

Cost:
   £1.785 million / $7.141 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 140 tons, 1.6 %
   Armour: 1,227 tons, 14.3 %
      - Belts: 574 tons, 6.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 90 tons, 1.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 536 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,422 tons, 28.2 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,992 tons, 34.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,601 tons, 18.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 219 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,606 lbs / 3,903 Kg = 83.6 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.18
   Metacentric height 2.9 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 14.0 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.34
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.511
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 68
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (47 %):      21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.12 ft / 5.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 107.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 108.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 21,028 Square feet or 1,954 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 91 lbs/sq ft or 445 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100t FC
25t LR Wireless
24t (12x2t 53cm Torpedoes)
60t Mines (30 per rail)
10t electric motors for train/elev 15cm mounts (2t per mount)

[Guinness]

I don't think the 2 extra guns are worth it. A ~1" thick deck is sufficient to defeat 15cm shells at ranges I'd consider feasible in Nverse 1925.

[Jefgte]

...I don't think the 2 extra guns are worth it...

I agree. integrate them in the fore battery - ala Takao or Mogami.

NUS is studying too Mogami turrets disposition.


Jef

[Logi]

Currently, the extra two guns have an awkward positioning and thus wouldn't be very usable in heavy maneuvering. Which I would expect from a cruiser.

The extra two guns and the deck armor isn't worth the 450t increase, IMO.

[ctwaterman]

Per Sams request to un-hijack his ships discussion I moved the Spotting range discussion to the Discussion board here...

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5462.msg68546#msg68546

Charles

[Sachmle]

KK1921d, Deutsche Reich Klein Kruezer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   7,000 t light; 7,297 t standard; 8,570 t normal; 9,589 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.73 ft / 552.00 ft x 56.63 ft x 18.86 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 168.25 m x 17.26 m  x 5.75 m

Armament:
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (4x2 guns), 99.21lbs / 45.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 19.84lbs / 9.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
      2 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, all forward, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 877 lbs / 398 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 250
   12 - 20.9" / 530 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   2.95" / 75 mm   394.52 ft / 120.25 m   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 110 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.57" / 40 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.38" / 35 mm, Conning tower: 2.95" / 75 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 70,000 shp / 52,220 Kw = 31.00 kts
   Range 10,000nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 2,292 tons

Complement:
   444 - 578

Cost:
   £1.726 million / $6.904 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 114 tons, 1.3 %
   Armour: 1,236 tons, 14.4 %
      - Belts: 629 tons, 7.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 46 tons, 0.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 535 tons, 6.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.3 %
   Machinery: 2,410 tons, 28.1 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2,910 tons, 34.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1,570 tons, 18.3 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 329 tons, 3.8 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8,823 lbs / 4,002 Kg = 85.7 x 5.9 " / 150 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
   Metacentric height 3.0 ft / 0.9 m
   Roll period: 13.8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.04

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.509
   Length to Beam Ratio: 9.75 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.49 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 67
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 14.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.97 ft / 7.00 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (47 %):      21.33 ft / 6.50 m (13.12 ft / 4.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Stern:      13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.12 ft / 5.22 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 106.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 20,992 Square feet or 1,950 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 117 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 89 lbs/sq ft or 433 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.98
      - Longitudinal: 1.17
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

100t FC
25t LR Wireless
24t (12x2t 53cm Torpedoes 4x3, 2 per side)
60t Mines (30 per rail)
25t 1 Floatplane
15t Hanger (Canvas over wood)
10t Fuel for floatplane
5t Berthing/supplies for pilot
5t spare parts for Floatplane
50t Crane
10t electric motors for train/elev 15cm mounts (2t per mount)

[Jefgte]

Always nice drawing  ;)
---------------------

100t FC
25t LR Wireless
24t (12x2t 53cm Torpedoes 4x3, 2 per side)
60t Mines (30 per rail)
25t 1 Floatplane
15t Hanger (Canvas over wood)
10t Fuel for floatplane
5t Berthing/supplies for pilot
5t spare parts for Floatplane
50t Crane
10t electric motors for train/elev 15cm mounts (2t per mount)

I have count 5t for 1 seaplane, I think, correct for 1920
& 2t (1 new motor) for spare parts for floatplane & 8t of fuel
cranes are used for lifeboats & seaplanes.

I note the low hight rangefinder - NUS instal the rangefinders on high circular mast - useful to fire @ 20.000m.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=5386.0

Jef  ;)