Rebuilt Inca Roca

[Jefgte]

I test an idea about a possible rebuilt of Inca Roca class light AC in a heavy 6" cruiser exclusively dedied to work near the 21-22kts BBs - the job could be vs CLs & DDs
--------------------
# are new 1916 oil engines & the remove of all 230 & 90mm guns
--------------------

4800T, Peru Protected cruiser laid down 1905 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 823 t light; 5 135 t standard; 5 643 t normal; 6 050 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   426.51 ft / 426.51 ft x 68.90 ft x 13.58 ft (normal load)
   130.00 m / 130.00 m x 21.00 m  x 4.14 m

Armament:
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
     8 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (4x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 736 lbs / 787 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 190
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   282.15 ft / 86.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     78.74 ft / 24.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     65.62 ft / 20.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 102 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.57" / 40 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 23 856 shp / 17 796 Kw = 24.20 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 915 tons

Complement:
   325 - 423

Cost:
   £0.476 million / $1.902 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 217 tons, 3.8 %
   Armour: 1 092 tons, 19.3 %
      - Belts: 499 tons, 8.8 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 140 tons, 2.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 426 tons, 7.5 %
      - Conning Tower: 27 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 889 tons, 15.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 475 tons, 43.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 820 tons, 14.5 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 150 tons, 2.7 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 153 lbs / 3 698 Kg = 75.5 x 6.0 " / 152 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.22
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 14.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.24
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has raised forecastle
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.19 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 20.65 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 54 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 70
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      22.31 ft / 6.80 m
      - Forecastle (26 %):   21.65 ft / 6.60 m (13.78 ft / 4.20 m aft of break)
      - Mid (50 %):      12.14 ft / 3.70 m
      - Quarterdeck (18 %):   12.14 ft / 3.70 m
      - Stern:      12.14 ft / 3.70 m
      - Average freeboard:   14.88 ft / 4.53 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 122.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 19 490 Square feet or 1 811 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 119 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 479 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.46
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform

Inca Roca- LD 1905 - in service 1908
Yahuar Huacac - LD 1908 - In service 1911
--------------------------------------
Original built

4800T, Peru Protected cruiser laid down 1905

Displacement:
   4 800 t light; 5 017 t standard; 5 431 t normal; 5 762 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 68.90 ft x 14.40 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 21.00 m  x 4.39 m

Armament:
     4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     10 - 3.54" / 90.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.24lbs / 10.09kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in casemate mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 1 708 lbs / 775 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   4 - 18.0" / 457 mm submerged torpedo tubes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   282.15 ft / 86.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     78.74 ft / 24.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   1.57" / 40 mm         -               -
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 8 500 ihp / 6 341 Kw = 18.50 kts
   Range 4 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 745 tons (100% coal)

Complement:
   316 - 411

Cost:
   £0.520 million / $2.079 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 213 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 1 095 tons, 20.2 %
      - Belts: 492 tons, 9.1 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 191 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armour Deck: 387 tons, 7.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 1 232 tons, 22.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 175 tons, 40.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 631 tons, 11.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 85 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     5 625 lbs / 2 551 Kg = 15.2 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.49
   Metacentric height 5.6 ft / 1.7 m
   Roll period: 12.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 75 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.17
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.34

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 44 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.75 ft / 4.80 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   13.12 ft / 4.00 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Stern:      11.48 ft / 3.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.23 ft / 3.73 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 111.1 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 126.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 691 Square feet or 1 644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 101 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 98 lbs/sq ft or 477 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.39
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Inca Roca- LD 1905 - in service 1908
Yahuar Huacac - LD 1908 - In service 1911

[TexanCowboy]

NEDS

[Kaiser Kirk]

These are pretty major changes.
New bow, plus a section amidships.  (only allowed way to gain that 12m extra length)
The main belt is staying the same, which I suppose means either you shifted it's location, replaced it, or there is a gap amidships where the new hull section is.
All new machinery and fuel spaces
removing 2 barbettes
removing all the casements,
deepign the draft by 0.25 while raising the mid-ships freeboard by 0.2 - basically adding a 0.45m in hull height- which isn't even a full deck anywhere.
All that on a 15 year old hull,

AS for NEDS, close at least. The OTL HMS Cleopatra was 7m longer and didn't have the 2 raised 6" on the centerline.
And the QF guns which are meant to be AA really need to be labeled such.

Overall this is a reconstruction, and I know when I considered one for my Baden-Baden class it really didn't price out.
Overall, I'm guessing you should scrap the old ship and build a new one and it will be cheaper in the long run.

[Jefgte]

Is it possible to change;

Machinery:
   Coal fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7 844 ihp / 5 851 Kw = 18.15 kts
   Range 4 500nm at 10.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 785 tons (100% coal)

to Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, complex reciprocating steam engines,
   Direct drive, 2 shafts, 7 844 ihp / 5 851 Kw = 18.15 kts
   Range 4 160nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 784 tons

[Logi]

Should be able to, last I checked it was allowed by refurbishment. It's simply the engines that can not be changed.

[Jefgte]

 ???

I don't remember in the naval history "complex reciprocating" with oil ???


Jef

[Jefgte]

An other rebuilt with just:
1916 new engines for 21kts
6M2x6" for secondaries

4800T, Peru Protected cruiser laid down 1905 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 660 t light; 4 951 t standard; 5 365 t normal; 5 696 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 68.90 ft x 14.22 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 21.00 m  x 4.34 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      12 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (6x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 789 lbs / 1 265 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   282.15 ft / 86.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     78.74 ft / 24.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   2.36" / 60 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      2.36" / 60 mm
   3rd:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14 000 shp / 10 444 Kw = 21.09 kts
   Range 5 870nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 745 tons

Complement:
   313 - 407

Cost:
   £0.529 million / $2.116 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 349 tons, 6.5 %
   Armour: 1 137 tons, 21.2 %
      - Belts: 492 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 233 tons, 4.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 387 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 522 tons, 9.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 528 tons, 47.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 705 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     7 807 lbs / 3 541 Kg = 21.0 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 1.8 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.29
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.00

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.91 ft / 4.85 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   13.29 ft / 4.05 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Stern:      11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.39 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83.5 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 109.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 691 Square feet or 1 644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 105 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 114 lbs/sq ft or 555 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.95
      - Longitudinal: 1.58
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

Inca Roca- LD 1905 - in service 1908
Yahuar Huacac - LD 1908 - In service 1911

[Sachmle]

I'm not sure on an oil fired VTE either, I don't see any reason why you can't though. However, I remember multiple conversations about not being able to swap out a VTE and replace it with a turbine. Something to do w/ shaft angle. Basically I think you would have to rebuild the entire stern to accomadate the new shaft since they will enter the hull differently for a turbine (mostly horizontal) vs a VTE (more diagonal since VTEs set taller). I don't think it would be worth it financially. I'd probably just gut them, use the 9" for either coastal guns or maybe a new shallow draft CDS for minefield protection, and then just scrap the rest and build new.

[Jefgte]

An other possible rebuilt with;
new 1916 engines for 21kts
a 3rd T2x230 & 4M2x120



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The SS

4800T, Peru Protected cruiser laid down 1905 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   4 686 t light; 4 951 t standard; 5 365 t normal; 5 696 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   387.14 ft / 387.14 ft x 68.90 ft x 14.22 ft (normal load)
   118.00 m / 118.00 m x 21.00 m  x 4.34 m

Armament:
      4 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (2x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
      2 - 9.06" / 230 mm guns (1x2 guns), 371.24lbs / 168.39kg shells, 1905 Model
     Breech loading guns in a turret (on a barbette)
     on side amidships
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns in single mounts, 52.72lbs / 23.92kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1905 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1905 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 2 446 lbs / 1 110 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   282.15 ft / 86.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     78.74 ft / 24.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     26.25 ft / 8.00 m Unarmoured ends
     Main Belt covers 112 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   1.97" / 50 mm   0.79" / 20 mm      1.97" / 50 mm

   - Armour deck: 1.18" / 30 mm, Conning tower: 3.94" / 100 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 2 shafts, 14 000 shp / 10 444 Kw = 21.09 kts
   Range 5 870nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 745 tons

Complement:
   313 - 407

Cost:
   £0.494 million / $1.976 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 306 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 1 164 tons, 21.7 %
      - Belts: 492 tons, 9.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 260 tons, 4.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 387 tons, 7.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 26 tons, 0.5 %
   Machinery: 522 tons, 9.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 2 570 tons, 47.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 679 tons, 12.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 125 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     8 405 lbs / 3 813 Kg = 22.6 x 9.1 " / 230 mm shells or 2.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.31
   Metacentric height 4.6 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 13.5 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 56 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.26
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.495
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.62 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.68 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      15.91 ft / 4.85 m
      - Forecastle (18 %):   13.29 ft / 4.05 m
      - Mid (50 %):      11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Quarterdeck (17 %):   11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Stern:      11.65 ft / 3.55 m
      - Average freeboard:   12.39 ft / 3.78 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 77.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 129.7 %
   Waterplane Area: 17 691 Square feet or 1 644 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 115 lbs/sq ft or 564 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.94
      - Longitudinal: 1.63
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Inca Roca- LD 1905 - in service 1908
Yahuar Huacac - LD 1908 - In service 1911

[Kaiser Kirk]

???

I don't remember in the naval history "complex reciprocating" with oil ???


Jef

USS Oklahoma :)  Triple Expansion and oil fired.

[P3D]

VTE-turbine conversion needs full reconstruction, and IMHO does not worth the bother.
I'd also add VTE-diesel conversions here just to be consistent.

[Sachmle]

VTE-turbine conversion needs full reconstruction, and IMHO does not worth the bother.
I'd also add VTE-diesel conversions here just to be consistent.

I agree for the most part, and think I said something similar earlier, but it may have been in the Nueva rebuild thread. The only way I think it would be possible would be if you installed a TE drive. Since the props don't connect directly to the turbine/gearbox/transmission/whatever they could be kept at the original angle of exit, thereby avoiding the need to rebuild the stern. My $0.02 on it.