A Middle Kindom Tiger (aka: I could not resist)

[snip]

Well some tweaks, and we have a FAB

Project Dragonfire, Middle Kingdom Fully Armored Battlecruiser laid down 1923

Displacement:
   28,000 t light; 29,361 t standard; 31,477 t normal; 33,170 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   718.51 ft / 702.10 ft x 91.86 ft x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   219.00 m / 214.00 m x 28.00 m  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      8 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,234.59lbs / 560.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread, 1 raised mount
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8 mounts), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      6 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on centreline, all amidships, all raised mounts - superfiring
      20 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 10,761 lbs / 4,881 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   386.15 ft / 117.70 m   14.99 ft / 4.57 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      3.15" / 80 mm   386.15 ft / 117.70 m   27.00 ft / 8.23 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.1" / 410 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      15.0" / 380 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 88,000 shp / 65,648 Kw = 27.00 kts
   Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,809 tons

Complement:
   1,181 - 1,536

Cost:
   £7.027 million / $28.108 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,219 tons, 3.9 %
   Armour: 12,340 tons, 39.2 %
      - Belts: 3,845 tons, 12.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,215 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 2,881 tons, 9.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,104 tons, 13.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 296 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 2,941 tons, 9.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 11,000 tons, 34.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,477 tons, 11.0 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     48,406 lbs / 21,957 Kg = 44.1 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 8.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 5.2 ft / 1.6 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.57
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.12

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.64 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26.50 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 53
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 4.10 ft / 1.25 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Forecastle (25 %):   21.33 ft / 6.50 m
      - Mid (70 %):      21.33 ft / 6.50 m (12.30 ft / 3.75 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (20 %):   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Stern:      12.30 ft / 3.75 m
      - Average freeboard:   18.62 ft / 5.68 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 149.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 46,953 Square feet or 4,362 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 111 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 169 lbs/sq ft or 825 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.10
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

She, just fits into a type 3, so come 1923 we might see here layed down...

[Logi]

By all means lay it down! i love underarmed ships. And also...

Range 7,500nm at 15.00 kts

It has twice over longer legs than any other ship in the MK navy, what do you need such range for anyways?

[mentat]

  I'd be more concerned about the speed than the armament - are you restricted to Type 3 Dock?

[snip]

Logi: I figure having more fuel meens she could run at higher speeds for longer. Besides, having more range might be useful.

Mentat: Yes, I only have one type3 facility.

In reality, more likely to see something like this

Project Dragonblast, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   22,600 t light; 24,178 t standard; 26,102 t normal; 27,641 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 85.30 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 26.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m)  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      12 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (3x4 guns), 1,234.59lbs / 560.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, evenly spread
     Aft Main mounts separated by engine room
      12 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6x2 guns), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      4 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (2x2 guns), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all aft
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 15,653 lbs / 7,100 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   331.59 ft / 101.07 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 91 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3.94" / 100 mm   331.59 ft / 101.07 m   27.07 ft / 8.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.1" / 410 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      15.0" / 380 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   3rd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 16.14" / 410 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 34,000 shp / 25,364 Kw = 21.16 kts
   Range 7,600nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,463 tons

Complement:
   1,026 - 1,334

Cost:
   £7.068 million / $28.274 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,762 tons, 6.7 %
   Armour: 9,935 tons, 38.1 %
      - Belts: 2,719 tons, 10.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,307 tons, 5.0 %
      - Armament: 2,434 tons, 9.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,168 tons, 12.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 306 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,136 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 9,267 tons, 35.5 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,502 tons, 13.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 1.9 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     32,675 lbs / 14,821 Kg = 29.8 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 6.1 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.8 ft / 1.4 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 59 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.73
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.17

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.644
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (65 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (19 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.17 ft / 4.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 89.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.5 %
   Waterplane Area: 36,250 Square feet or 3,368 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 97 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 185 lbs/sq ft or 903 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.45
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

or this

Project Dragontalon I, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   21,000 t light; 22,291 t standard; 24,106 t normal; 25,558 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 85.30 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 26.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m)  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      9 - 12.99" / 330 mm guns (3x3 guns), 1,234.59lbs / 560.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (6 mounts), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1915 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 11,949 lbs / 5,420 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   297.05 ft / 90.54 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3.15" / 80 mm   297.05 ft / 90.54 m   27.07 ft / 8.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.1" / 410 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      15.0" / 380 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 16.14" / 410 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 21.19 kts
   Range 7,600nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,267 tons

Complement:
   966 - 1,257

Cost:
   £5.874 million / $23.494 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,350 tons, 5.6 %
   Armour: 9,324 tons, 38.7 %
      - Belts: 2,707 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 937 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 2,362 tons, 9.8 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,027 tons, 12.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 290 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,070 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,706 tons, 36.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,106 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 550 tons, 2.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,409 lbs / 16,061 Kg = 32.3 x 13.0 " / 330 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.61
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (65 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.17 ft / 4.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 78.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,630 Square feet or 3,217 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 180 lbs/sq ft or 880 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.47
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

or this

Project Dragontalon II, Middle Kingdom Battleship laid down 1923

Displacement:
   21,000 t light; 22,280 t standard; 24,106 t normal; 25,567 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   557.74 ft / 557.74 ft x 85.30 ft (Bulges 88.58 ft) x 28.71 ft (normal load)
   170.00 m / 170.00 m x 26.00 m (Bulges 27.00 m)  x 8.75 m

Armament:
      6 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (3x2 guns), 1,984.16lbs / 900.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, majority forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 46.30lbs / 21.00kg shells, 1919 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all forward
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 0.98" / 25.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.55lbs / 0.25kg shells, 1923 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
   Weight of broadside 12,743 lbs / 5,780 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 111

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   15.0" / 380 mm   297.05 ft / 90.54 m   13.32 ft / 4.06 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 82 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead and Bulges:
      3.15" / 80 mm   297.05 ft / 90.54 m   27.07 ft / 8.25 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16.1" / 410 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      15.0" / 380 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm
   4th:   0.59" / 15 mm         -         0.79" / 20 mm
   5th:   0.20" / 5 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 16.14" / 410 mm

Machinery:
   Diesel Internal combustion generators,
   Electric motors, 4 shafts, 32,000 shp / 23,872 Kw = 21.19 kts
   Range 7,650nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3,287 tons

Complement:
   966 - 1,257

Cost:
   £5.928 million / $23.711 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,372 tons, 5.7 %
   Armour: 9,206 tons, 38.2 %
      - Belts: 2,707 tons, 11.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 937 tons, 3.9 %
      - Armament: 2,245 tons, 9.3 %
      - Armour Deck: 3,027 tons, 12.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 290 tons, 1.2 %
   Machinery: 1,070 tons, 4.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 8,852 tons, 36.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3,106 tons, 12.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 500 tons, 2.1 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     35,334 lbs / 16,027 Kg = 21.1 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 6.9 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 4.9 ft / 1.5 m
   Roll period: 16.7 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.64
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.22

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0.595
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.30 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 23.62 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 46 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 41
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Mid (65 %):      18.04 ft / 5.50 m (9.84 ft / 3.00 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (25 %):   9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Stern:      9.84 ft / 3.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.17 ft / 4.63 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.4 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 112.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 34,630 Square feet or 3,217 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 106 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 183 lbs/sq ft or 895 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.96
      - Longitudinal: 1.51
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

Thoughts?

[Jefgte]

I like them, not too expensive but powerfull.

With 2x 22600t BB you have 24 x 330 guns - 27 tons of shells every mn on the enemy  :o

They could quickly put a 42000T BB or BC on fire & the DDs finish the job with torpedoes...


Jef  ;)

[snip]

Thanks. I have this fondness for quads, so that is my favorite of these designs. the extra 1600t is worth it to go from 9-12 guns. Im going to play with it to see about changing the main gun layout. Having 8 guns to deter chasers would be nice, and these are not quick, so no catching anything. Thoughts on the main gun layout?

[Borys]

Ahoj!
Go with Dragonblast - you'll be able to use OTL drawings of the Normandie class.
Borys

[snip]

Were do you think I got the idea. Also all my 330mm guns are based off those on Dunky. you could say that I am looking at the French Navy for what to do ;D