An Iberian Hood

[Jefgte]

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
  Main:   13.8" / 350 mm   447.83 ft / 136.50 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
  Ends:   Unarmoured
    Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

IMO, Decrease a little the height to protect the bow vs medium shells & to reduce the hole extension in case of big shell hit. Pumps will thanks you  :D  :D  :D


Jef  ;)

[miketr]

I used HMS Nelson as a starting point for a new design.

BB-1922-C, Iberia Battleship laid down 1922 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   35,001 t light; 36,979 t standard; 40,130 t normal; 42,651 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   672.57 ft / 672.57 ft x 107.61 ft x 29.86 ft (normal load)
   205.00 m / 205.00 m x 32.80 m  x 9.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,952.76lbs / 885.76kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17,329 lbs / 7,860 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   235.37 ft / 71.74 m   12.43 ft / 3.79 m
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   11.8" / 300 mm      13.4" / 340 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 13.39" / 340 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,001 shp / 59,681 Kw = 24.95 kts
   Range 15,530nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,671 tons

Complement:
   1,416 - 1,842

Cost:
   £9.371 million / $37.486 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,166 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 15,122 tons, 37.7 %
      - Belts: 5,897 tons, 14.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 0 tons, 0.0 %
      - Armament: 4,042 tons, 10.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,846 tons, 12.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 338 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,797 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,403 tons, 35.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,129 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 513 tons, 1.3 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56,681 lbs / 25,710 Kg = 29.0 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 5.0 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 6.7 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.4 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.10

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.70 ft / 5.70 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.93 ft / 6.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 65.6 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 55,445 Square feet or 5,151 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 197 lbs/sq ft or 964 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.30
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Jefgte]

Where are...

- Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm  ...m 


Jef  ;)

[miketr]

I always miss that for some reason.

BB-1922-C1, Iberia Battleship laid down 1922 (Engine 1920)

Displacement:
   35,001 t light; 36,979 t standard; 40,130 t normal; 42,651 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   672.57 ft / 672.57 ft x 107.61 ft x 29.86 ft (normal load)
   205.00 m / 205.00 m x 32.80 m  x 9.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,952.76lbs / 885.76kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17,329 lbs / 7,860 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   28.67 ft / 8.74 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   11.8" / 300 mm      13.4" / 340 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.13" / 105 mm, Conning tower: 13.39" / 340 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,001 shp / 59,681 Kw = 24.95 kts
   Range 15,530nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,671 tons

Complement:
   1,416 - 1,842

Cost:
   £9.371 million / $37.486 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,166 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 15,003 tons, 37.4 %
      - Belts: 5,470 tons, 13.6 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 913 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 4,042 tons, 10.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,240 tons, 10.6 %
      - Conning Tower: 338 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,797 tons, 7.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,435 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,129 tons, 12.8 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 600 tons, 1.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56,661 lbs / 25,701 Kg = 29.0 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 9.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.650
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.70 ft / 5.70 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.93 ft / 6.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 80.9 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.9 %
   Waterplane Area: 55,445 Square feet or 5,151 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 966 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.27
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[mentat]

  being greedy I'd want 2 of the Fast 30 knot ones and 2 of the 25 knot Heavy Bruisers

        - given your likely opposition - which do you need most??

[miketr]

Iberia is mostly worried about the Netherlands. 

There are a number of armored Frigates in Netherlands Service.

2 Tromps, 2 de Ruyter and and unknown number of Arnheim Class

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=675.msg23468#msg23468

So that is Six 27 knot designs.  Iberia only has the resources to build 2 large ships at once; anything more would mean no other ships could be built.

Michael

[Sachmle]

There are actually 3 Tromps. Tromp, Wilhelmina der Nederlanden, and Na h-Eileanan Siar.

[miketr]

Didn't the mods blow one up as an excuse to end the last war?

Michael

[Kaiser Kirk]

Yep.
Precipitated the collapse of the Dutch government and then the peace treaty.

[Sachmle]

Thought that was an Antwerp Class.

My bad it was Tromp herself. Cool.

[miketr]

Here are the two ships side by side.  General Details.  Both 35,000 ton Designs.  I can only build two ships, the question is which ones.

Michael

Armored Cruiser

4x2 350mm & 8x1 150mm
320mm Belt, 100mm Deck, & 250mm Upper Belt
Speed 29.5 Knots

Battleship

4x2 400mm & 8x2 150mm
340mm Belt, 110mm Deck, & 200mm Upper Belt
Speed 24.75 Knots

AC 1922-B3, Iberia Armored Cruiser laid down 1922

Displacement:
   35,001 t light; 36,561 t standard; 39,633 t normal; 42,091 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   787.40 ft / 787.40 ft x 98.43 ft x 30.18 ft (normal load)
   240.00 m / 240.00 m x 30.00 m  x 9.20 m

Armament:
      8 - 13.78" / 350 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,308.20lbs / 593.39kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns in single mounts, 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 11,349 lbs / 5,148 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   9.84" / 250 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   511.81 ft / 156.00 m   28.18 ft / 8.59 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   9.84" / 250 mm      12.6" / 320 mm
   2nd:   2.95" / 75 mm   1.97" / 50 mm      2.95" / 75 mm

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 13.78" / 350 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 139,800 shp / 104,291 Kw = 29.64 kts
   Range 15,330nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,530 tons

Complement:
   1,403 - 1,825

Cost:
   £8.402 million / $33.606 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,419 tons, 3.6 %
   Armour: 14,523 tons, 36.6 %
      - Belts: 6,239 tons, 15.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 840 tons, 2.1 %
      - Armament: 2,997 tons, 7.6 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,101 tons, 10.3 %
      - Conning Tower: 345 tons, 0.9 %
   Machinery: 4,742 tons, 12.0 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 13,748 tons, 34.7 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,632 tons, 11.7 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 570 tons, 1.4 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     56,120 lbs / 25,456 Kg = 42.9 x 13.8 " / 350 mm shells or 8.3 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.0 ft / 1.8 m
   Roll period: 16.9 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 55 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.09

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.593
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.06 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 51 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.61 ft / 7.50 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.98 ft / 6.70 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.67 ft / 6.30 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.01 ft / 6.10 m
      - Stern:      19.69 ft / 6.00 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.10 ft / 6.43 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 85.7 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 159.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 56,312 Square feet or 5,232 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 110 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 175 lbs/sq ft or 855 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.99
      - Longitudinal: 1.01
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

BB-1922-C2, Iberia Battleship laid down 1922

Displacement:
   35,001 t light; 36,978 t standard; 40,068 t normal; 42,541 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   672.57 ft / 672.57 ft x 107.61 ft x 29.86 ft (normal load)
   205.00 m / 205.00 m x 32.80 m  x 9.10 m

Armament:
      8 - 15.75" / 400 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,952.76lbs / 885.76kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 5.91" / 150 mm guns (8x2 guns), 102.98lbs / 46.71kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, all amidships
      4 - 2.95" / 75.0 mm guns in single mounts, 12.87lbs / 5.84kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1922 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 17,329 lbs / 7,860 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   16.40 ft / 5.00 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
   Upper:   7.87" / 200 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   8.20 ft / 2.50 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   437.17 ft / 133.25 m   28.67 ft / 8.74 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   13.4" / 340 mm   11.8" / 300 mm      13.4" / 340 mm
   2nd:   4.72" / 120 mm   2.95" / 75 mm      4.72" / 120 mm
   3rd:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -
   4th:   0.98" / 25 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 4.33" / 110 mm, Conning tower: 13.39" / 340 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 80,001 shp / 59,681 Kw = 24.96 kts
   Range 15,570nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,563 tons

Complement:
   1,415 - 1,840

Cost:
   £9.340 million / $37.358 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2,166 tons, 5.4 %
   Armour: 15,200 tons, 37.9 %
      - Belts: 5,470 tons, 13.7 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 913 tons, 2.3 %
      - Armament: 4,042 tons, 10.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,438 tons, 11.1 %
      - Conning Tower: 338 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 2,714 tons, 6.8 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 14,431 tons, 36.0 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 5,067 tons, 12.6 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 490 tons, 1.2 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     57,364 lbs / 26,020 Kg = 29.4 x 15.7 " / 400 mm shells or 9.7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
   Metacentric height 6.8 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 53 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.52
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.11

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.649
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6.25 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 25.93 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 50 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 48
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      24.28 ft / 7.40 m
      - Forecastle (20 %):   21.00 ft / 6.40 m
      - Mid (50 %):      19.36 ft / 5.90 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   18.70 ft / 5.70 m
      - Stern:      18.04 ft / 5.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   19.93 ft / 6.08 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 79.8 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 145.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 55,394 Square feet or 5,146 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 198 lbs/sq ft or 966 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.97
      - Longitudinal: 1.28
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

[Jefgte]

For 1922 projects , It's too early to take the right decision.
Place the 2 projects in your file" To built". 

These projects are exellent.

Did you test AC with 3T2x400  A-B-Y ?


Jef  ;)

[Sachmle]

Don't know how much more 'whatever' it will allow you to put on either, but remember

1917: Engine year 1920, Max. non-VTE power 40,000 HP/Shaft, Engine year = year laid down.

means 1920 for the engine year up to 1920, then it's engine year after that. So your 1922 ships would have 1922 engines. May save you a couple hundred tons of engine weight to sink into armor or whatever.
BTW Mike, the last BB you posted only has a 105mm deck, not 120 like the rest. Didn't know if you posted the wrong SS. I like the ACs, they will have a longer useful life I think. 14"(35cm is basically 14") is good enough and 12.6" belt is thicker/thick as Iowa's OTL belt. 100mm deck may be light for future proof, but you can "refit" her later and add laminated deck armor like the Japanese did, or just rip up the deck and do a 'rebuild' and put all new deck armor in.

[miketr]

OK I updated the engine dates and the BB's deck armor is 110mm.  Mostly the extra weight went to misc on the AC.

I am a little reluctant to go crazy on the deck armor without clear cause in game for it.  We really have had a lot of long range battles.

I tend to agree that the AC might be more useful in the long run; if nothing else she has armor good enough to stand in the line of battle w/ my current BB's.

Michael

[mentat]

Jef's suggestion on looking at the 'middle ground' is interesting - how about the 3T2 400mm - with 28 knots and heavy as poss armour - a Ship for all Seasons?

in particular the 2 operating together would be plenty powerful - ant totally flexible between Battleline vs Fast Scouting/support Light Forces - Big 28 knot ships can keep pace with smaller 30 knot ships (CLs etc) in normal seaway ...