A Pacific "Hood"

[Sachmle]

Designed to fight at longer ranges, therefore belt armor is sacrificed to thicken the deck and turret/barbettes. Secondary is designed to maximize anti-TB defense. 8.8cm AAA guns can fire at lower angles, but lack size to be of much use except against merchants, surfaced subs, or older TBs (200-500t). All armor is +10% 1915 Improved Krupps and the main belt is inclined 12.5* (25cm listed * 1.10 = 27.5cm actual). Main belt effective height is 12.01ft and Line-of-sight thickness is 28cm. (TL = TN/cos12.5*), 27.5/cos 12.5 = 28cm).



GK2101, Deutsch Reich Großes Kruezer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 36,594 t standard; 39,730 t normal; 42,239 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   836.60 ft / 830.05 ft x 107.45 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
   255.00 m / 253.00 m x 32.75 m  x 9.00 m

Armament:
     8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,653.47lbs / 750.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
     16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
     4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
     8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
     6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 14,175 lbs / 6,430 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   9.84" / 250 mm   539.70 ft / 164.50 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   290.32 ft / 88.49 m   12.30 ft / 3.75 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.36" / 60 mm   539.70 ft / 164.50 m   28.38 ft / 8.65 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.6" / 320 mm   7.48" / 190 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   3.15" / 80 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 4.72" / 120 mm, Conning tower: 12.99" / 330 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 108,700 shp / 81,091 Kw = 28.01 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,644 tons

Complement:
   1,406 - 1,829

Cost:
   £8.283 million / $33.133 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,792 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 13,148 tons, 33.1 %
      - Belts: 3,311 tons, 8.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,339 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 2,844 tons, 7.2 %
      - Armour Deck: 5,330 tons, 13.4 %
      - Conning Tower: 326 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,743 tons, 9.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,917 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,730 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60,296 lbs / 27,350 Kg = 36.0 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 10.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.12
   Metacentric height 6.9 ft / 2.1 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.25

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.528
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.73 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Stern:      20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.34 ft / 6.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.4 %
   Waterplane Area: 60,978 Square feet or 5,665 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 193 lbs/sq ft or 940 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

250t = 1912 FC
50t = 2x 1916 Float-planes (1913 Aircraft Tech)
50t = Crane and Hanger for Float-planes (1913 Carrier Tech)
25t = 1905 Sehendes Auge
25t = Long Range Wireless

[ledeper]

You cant restrain yourself: ;) :D :D

[Guinness]

me thinks the belt is too short(in height) for a long fast ship.

[miketr]

Me thinks a 250mm belt is too thin.

Michael

[Sachmle]

You cant restrain yourself: ;) :D :D

Nope.  ;)

me thinks the belt is too short(in height) for a long fast ship.

4' above and 8' below is too short? How deep would be deep enough then?

Me thinks a 250mm belt is too thin.

Michael

280cm equivalent, and why would 250cm(280cm) be to thin? She's not going BB hunting and at longer ranges belt hits would be coming in at a downward angle, helping the inclined belt even more. What would be thick enough? 30cm, 32cm? I could thin the deck down to 100-110cm and see if I can get the belt up to 260-270 input (286-297 post 10% improvement, 293-304 effective thickness).

[Guinness]

yes, 4 feet above and 8 below is too short. This thing is carrying 5944 tonnes of fuel, or in other words, 13% of the full load displacement is fuel. I have not the math to calculate the change in draft, but it's going to be pretty considerable. I don't remember what percentage of total bunkerage SS uses for normal displacment, but difference between deep and light is likely to be something like 3.8 feet.

I think a belt height of something more like 5m is required in a fast, long-legged ship of our era.

[ledeper]

 ;) ;) :D ;D

[P3D]

yes, 4 feet above and 8 below is too short. This thing is carrying 5944 tonnes of fuel, or in other words, 13% of the full load displacement is fuel. I have not the math to calculate the change in draft, but it's going to be pretty considerable. I don't remember what percentage of total bunkerage SS uses for normal displacment, but difference between deep and light is likely to be something like 3.8 feet.

I think a belt height of something more like 5m is required in a fast, long-legged ship of our era.

Divide the change in displacement (in long tons) by the waterplane area (in m2), and you get the change in draught (in m).

[Guinness]

That gives me 1.2m difference between light and full load, or 3.9 feet (if I worked the calculator correctly).

[Sachmle]

That gives me 1.2m difference between light and full load, or 3.9 feet (if I worked the calculator correctly).

So at full load the belt would be 0.1 feet above waterline..hmm..good point.

[Sachmle]

GK2103, Deutsch Reich Großes Kruezer laid down 1921

Displacement:
   35,000 t light; 36,594 t standard; 39,729 t normal; 42,237 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   836.60 ft / 830.05 ft x 107.94 ft x 29.53 ft (normal load)
   255.00 m / 253.00 m x 32.90 m  x 9.00 m

Armament:
      8 - 14.96" / 380 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1,653.47lbs / 750.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
      16 - 4.72" / 120 mm guns (8x2 guns), 52.91lbs / 24.00kg shells, 1918 Model
     Quick firing guns in deck mounts with hoists
     on side, all amidships, 4 raised mounts - superfiring
      4 - 3.46" / 88.0 mm guns in single mounts, 22.05lbs / 10.00kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
      8 - 1.46" / 37.0 mm guns in single mounts, 1.55lbs / 0.70kg shells, 1921 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread
      6 - 0.59" / 15.0 mm guns in single mounts, 0.10lbs / 0.05kg shells, 1921 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side ends, evenly spread, all raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 14,176 lbs / 6,430 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   10.4" / 265 mm   539.70 ft / 164.50 m   16.01 ft / 4.88 m
   Ends:   3.94" / 100 mm   290.35 ft / 88.50 m   10.99 ft / 3.35 m
     Main Belt covers 100 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2.36" / 60 mm   539.70 ft / 164.50 m   27.99 ft / 8.53 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   12.2" / 310 mm   7.09" / 180 mm      11.8" / 300 mm
   2nd:   3.15" / 80 mm   1.57" / 40 mm      3.94" / 100 mm
   3rd:   1.57" / 40 mm   0.39" / 10 mm            -
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.39" / 10 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 3.94" / 100 mm, Conning tower: 12.20" / 310 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 109,000 shp / 81,314 Kw = 28.03 kts
   Range 9,500nm at 15.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 5,644 tons

Complement:
   1,406 - 1,829

Cost:
   £8.287 million / $33.147 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 1,792 tons, 4.5 %
   Armour: 13,196 tons, 33.2 %
      - Belts: 4,315 tons, 10.9 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1,320 tons, 3.3 %
      - Armament: 2,803 tons, 7.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 4,452 tons, 11.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 306 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 3,753 tons, 9.4 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15,859 tons, 39.9 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4,729 tons, 11.9 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 400 tons, 1.0 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     60,344 lbs / 27,371 Kg = 36.0 x 15.0 " / 380 mm shells or 10.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.13
   Metacentric height 7.1 ft / 2.2 m
   Roll period: 17.1 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.50
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.26

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.526
   Length to Beam Ratio: 7.69 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 28.81 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 56
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 12.50 degrees
   Stern overhang: -6.56 ft / -2.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      29.53 ft / 9.00 m
      - Forecastle (23 %):   20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Mid (50 %):      20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Quarterdeck (15 %):   20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Stern:      20.51 ft / 6.25 m
      - Average freeboard:   21.34 ft / 6.50 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 81.3 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 169.8 %
   Waterplane Area: 61,120 Square feet or 5,678 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 192 lbs/sq ft or 936 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1.00
      - Longitudinal: 1.00
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
   Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily

All armor is +10% 1915 Improved Krupps
Main Belt is inclined 12.5*. Main belt effective height is 15.63ft
250t = 1912 FC
50t = 2x 1916 Floatplanes
50t = Catapult and Crane for Floatplanes
25t = 1905 Sehendes Auge
25t = Long Range Wireless

[snip]

so...temped...must...resist...have...ODE homework...GAH!

[P3D]

That gives me 1.2m difference between light and full load, or 3.9 feet (if I worked the calculator correctly).

So at full load the belt would be 0.1 feet above waterline..hmm..good point.

The 2500t difference between the normal (SS2 assumption) and full displacement is what counts here. That's still about 1.5' draught.