...Always Pocket BBs

[Jefgte]

Study 1928 predreadnought or PBB



2T2x340-PBB, NUS PBB laid down 1928 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
   10 400 t light; 10 962 t standard; 11 871 t normal; 12 598 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.34 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m  x 6.81 m

Armament:
      4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1928 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1928 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1928 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
      8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 681 lbs / 2 577 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 100
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.66" / 220 mm   249.34 ft / 76.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   124.67 ft / 38.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
     19.69 ft / 6.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   249.34 ft / 76.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 97 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   249.34 ft / 76.00 m   22.11 ft / 6.74 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 27 000 shp / 20 142 Kw = 21.74 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 637 tons

Complement:
   568 - 739

Cost:
   £4.128 million / $16.512 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 710 tons, 6.0 %
   Armour: 3 751 tons, 31.6 %
      - Belts: 1 208 tons, 10.2 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 402 tons, 3.4 %
      - Armament: 945 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 073 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 124 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 864 tons, 7.3 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 765 tons, 40.1 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 471 tons, 12.4 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 310 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     16 233 lbs / 7 363 Kg = 13.5 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 3.5 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.2 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 51 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.54
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.02

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 59 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      21.65 ft / 6.60 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   19.03 ft / 5.80 m
      - Mid (50 %):      15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Stern:      15.42 ft / 4.70 m
      - Average freeboard:   17.01 ft / 5.18 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 106.6 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 673 Square feet or 2 106 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 749 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.71
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[Jefgte]

Cutting down to 10000t-
Interresting for the little countries with short slipways (120m) or as emergency building program.

Defender, NUS PBB laid down 1928 (Engine 1926)

Displacement:
   10 000 t light; 10 619 t standard; 11 509 t normal; 12 220 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.21 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m  x 6.77 m

Armament:
     4 - 13.39" / 340 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1 200.00lbs / 544.31kg shells, 1928 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
     4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1928 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
     4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1928 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
     8 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (4x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.88kg shells, 1928 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
     16 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns (4x4 guns), 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1928 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 5 681 lbs / 2 577 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
  - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.66" / 220 mm   252.62 ft / 77.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm     98.43 ft / 30.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     42.65 ft / 13.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   252.62 ft / 77.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 99 % of normal length

  - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.57" / 40 mm   252.62 ft / 77.00 m   21.92 ft / 6.68 m

  - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.06" / 230 mm
   2nd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   3rd:   3.94" / 100 mm   1.18" / 30 mm      3.15" / 80 mm
   4th:   0.79" / 20 mm         -               -
   5th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

  - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 8.66" / 220 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 24 000 shp / 17 904 Kw = 21.26 kts
   Range 10 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 601 tons

Complement:
   555 - 722

Cost:
   £4.023 million / $16.093 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 710 tons, 6.2 %
   Armour: 3 586 tons, 31.2 %
      - Belts: 1 194 tons, 10.4 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 323 tons, 2.8 %
      - Armament: 916 tons, 8.0 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 058 tons, 9.2 %
      - Conning Tower: 95 tons, 0.8 %
   Machinery: 768 tons, 6.7 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 636 tons, 40.3 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 509 tons, 13.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2.6 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     15 513 lbs / 7 037 Kg = 12.9 x 13.4 " / 340 mm shells or 3.4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.10
   Metacentric height 4.2 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.2 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 52 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.51
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.03

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.585
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Forecastle (22 %):   17.39 ft / 5.30 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Stern:      14.76 ft / 4.50 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.97 ft / 4.87 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 96.2 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 102.0 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 357 Square feet or 2 077 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 104 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 153 lbs/sq ft or 746 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.56
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[mentat]

Apologies -  I'm afraid my response is all too predictable - wouldn't 2 x 3 x 300mm be more effective??

As 'spoilers' - this type is very useful - you need something much bigger to be sure of a kill ...

[eltf177]

I notice both Main Battery turrets are forward, what is the Secondary Battery layout?

[Jefgte]

I have read recently that some 4 & 6 guns BBs were studying in the 30, after the German Deutschland class laid down.
The reason were not to counter the Deutschland but:
- The gunnery performances.
- The complicated strategical & tactical use of the big expensive BBs.

Big guns could fire every 30 sec & that is nearly the time for the shells to arrive at 22 000m.

That mean that 2 turrets (2T2 or 2T3) are enough to have a 30sec continuous fire on a target.
-----------------------
This PBB is an adaptation of this idea to our Nverse.
120m shipyards & the max BB armament possible on this hull. IMO, 12" shells are now to light to engage seriously a BB.
- They could fire like a 1/2 BB @ 20000m.
- 4 x10000t PBBs with could engage a 35000 - 40000t BB.
- These 10000t PBBs could work in the classic 21kts BBs battleline.
- During a war, they could be built in quantities & just in 2 years. (this is not no possible for a 35000t)
- The cost is limited & littles countries could have a couple of them.

The drawing of this "pocket Rodney" is in progress

Jef

[P3D]

As wars in N3verse usually go, even a war emergency destroyer would not be finished before a ceasefire agreement.

[Sachmle]

As wars in N3verse usually go, even a war emergency destroyer would not be finished before a ceasefire agreement.

I KNOW!! I tried in the Dutch/Siam war to do that...they all finished 1HY AFTER the war....

[Jefgte]

The front 2T2x340 have a fire arc of 300°
The dead angle is just 60° aft.
Superstructures are design to support the blast effect.
The 4T2x6" are placed differently as HMS Rodney.

It's certainly possible to SS 2T3x12" in place of the 340mm.
Increase the protection...? not sure...


Jef

[Jefgte]

Testing a SS with the 1920/1916 technos & 2T3x12"

2T3x305-PBB, NUS PBB laid down 1920 (Engine 1916)

Displacement:
   10 530 t light; 11 183 t standard; 11 979 t normal; 12 615 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   393.70 ft / 393.70 ft x 78.74 ft x 22.54 ft (normal load)
   120.00 m / 120.00 m x 24.00 m  x 6.87 m

Armament:
      6 - 12.00" / 305 mm guns (2x3 guns), 864.00lbs / 391.90kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all forward, 1 raised mount - superfiring
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline, all aft
      4 - 6.00" / 152 mm guns (2x2 guns), 108.00lbs / 48.99kg shells, 1920 Model
     Quick firing guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on side, evenly spread
      4 - 1.57" / 40.0 mm guns (2x2 guns), 1.95lbs / 0.89kg shells, 1920 Model
     Anti-aircraft guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
      4 - 0.50" / 12.7 mm guns in single mounts, 0.06lbs / 0.03kg shells, 1920 Model
     Machine guns in deck mounts
     on side, evenly spread, all raised mounts
   Weight of broadside 6 056 lbs / 2 747 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 120
   6 - 21.0" / 533.4 mm above water torpedoes

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   8.66" / 220 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   10.17 ft / 3.10 m
   Ends:   1.57" / 40 mm   111.55 ft / 34.00 m   9.45 ft / 2.88 m
     22.97 ft / 7.00 m Unarmoured ends
   Upper:   1.57" / 40 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   8.01 ft / 2.44 m
     Main Belt covers 101 % of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      1.97" / 50 mm   259.19 ft / 79.00 m   22.11 ft / 6.74 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   11.0" / 280 mm   3.94" / 100 mm      9.84" / 250 mm
   2nd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   3rd:   3.15" / 80 mm   0.98" / 25 mm      1.97" / 50 mm
   4th:   0.50" / 13 mm         -               -

   - Armour deck: 2.56" / 65 mm, Conning tower: 11.02" / 280 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 3 shafts, 24 000 shp / 17 904 Kw = 21.10 kts
   Range 7 000nm at 12.00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 1 432 tons

Complement:
   572 - 744

Cost:
   £2.670 million / $10.680 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 757 tons, 6.3 %
   Armour: 3 815 tons, 31.8 %
      - Belts: 1 232 tons, 10.3 %
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 417 tons, 3.5 %
      - Armament: 967 tons, 8.1 %
      - Armour Deck: 1 073 tons, 9.0 %
      - Conning Tower: 124 tons, 1.0 %
   Machinery: 894 tons, 7.5 %
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 4 764 tons, 39.8 %
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 1 449 tons, 12.1 %
   Miscellaneous weights: 300 tons, 2.5 %

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     14 959 lbs / 6 785 Kg = 17.3 x 12.0 " / 305 mm shells or 3.2 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.09
   Metacentric height 4.1 ft / 1.3 m
   Roll period: 16.3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 50 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.53
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1.01

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0.600
   Length to Beam Ratio: 5.00 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 19.84 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 57 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0.00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0.00 ft / 0.00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      20.34 ft / 6.20 m
      - Forecastle (24 %):   17.06 ft / 5.20 m
      - Mid (50 %):      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Quarterdeck (14 %):   14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Stern:      14.44 ft / 4.40 m
      - Average freeboard:   15.72 ft / 4.79 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 101.0 %
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 98.1 %
   Waterplane Area: 22 673 Square feet or 2 106 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 100 %
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 155 lbs/sq ft or 758 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0.90
      - Longitudinal: 2.50
      - Overall: 1.00
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is adequate

[eltf177]

The 4T2x6" are placed differently as HMS Rodney.

Are you sure? You've got one on each beam plus two centerline (neither superfiring). I'm thinking more like Dunquerque or Richielieu but with one of the centerline turrets superfiring.

[Jefgte]

Drawing not finished...
Posted to see the armament disposition & angles



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[eltf177]

The 4T2x6" are placed differently as HMS Rodney.

Are you sure? You've got one on each beam plus two centerline (neither superfiring). I'm thinking more like Dunquerque or Richielieu but with one of the centerline turrets superfiring.

"Ah, now I see said the blind man."

[Sachmle]

Kinda an ocean-going super monitor/CDS. Good for small nations w/ limited $$/BP and no need to go gallivanting around the world.

[snip]

(drools) Very nice

[Laertes]

Somewhere I've got a whole pile of sims for 15kt pocket battleships that are within the 120m restraint. Building big-ship competitors is kind of a hobby of mine.

Very nice, though. I'm impressed with the last design, although 300mm might be too light a gun for the 1920s.