Ship Drawings et al

[Laertes]

So I started doodling on MSPaint, and came up with this:

I'd appreciate feedback, and would also be interested to know if anyone has any idea on what could be done with the space between the stacks. There isn't really enough space for another crane and boats, and I feel guilty not optimising space on a warship.



Please pardon the odd texture; converting to .gif did that.

[Sachmle]

Honestly, I think your superstructure is to long and to short. I you make it shorter lengthwise and taller you can move the forward stack towards the bow, allowing enough room between them for a proper boat deck.

[miketr]

Not bad first try.  I suggest *.png format instead it should look much better when you save it.  I do all by drawings in that format.

http://www.navalism.org/index.php?topic=841.0

This is a site I shamelessly steal design bits for my drawings.

german-navy.de

Michael

[damocles]

So I started doodling on MSPaint, and came up with this:

I'd appreciate feedback, and would also be interested to know if anyone has any idea on what could be done with the space between the stacks. There isn't really enough space for another crane and boats, and I feel guilty not optimising space on a warship.



Please pardon the odd texture; converting to .gif did that.

I suppose that I could amplify Sachmle comments, but I note specifically  that your forward superstructure is long in length and short in height. Shorten and raise. Reduce the gunfire linear silhouette you show to enemy optics and open up deck space.

I would like your broadside battery to be higher above the weather/wave line and that your forecastle break and superstructure bulge would not foul secondary firing arcs.   

Aside from that, its a handsome draw. Better than I could do.

[mentat]

Nice drawing  :)

Between the Stacks - you could try Searchlight Platform

Agree - taller bridge structure would look better

And surprised there is not a Rear DCT - if the Bridge structure is taller and less spread out + Funnels move forward - there should be space ...

From the Specs - 8 x 42cm 30 knots on 35 k tons light - the armour very thin???

[Borys]

From the Specs - 8 x 42cm 30 knots on 35 k tons light - the armour very thin???

By Maori and KKK standards - non existent ... :)

ADDED LATER:
I actually simmed this thing ....

laid down 1920

Displacement:
   35 336 t light; 37 011 t standard; 38 806 t normal; 40 242 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   850,00 ft / 850,00 ft x 100,00 ft x 29,00 ft (normal load)
   259,08 m / 259,08 m x 30,48 m  x 8,84 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,50" / 419 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 246,06lbs / 1 018,80kg shells, 1920 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 17 969 lbs / 8 150 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 90

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 138 204 shp / 103 100 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 6 000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 3 231 tons

Complement:
   1 382 - 1 797

Cost:
   £8,982 million / $35,927 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 246 tons, 5,8%
   Machinery: 4 832 tons, 12,5%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 28 258 tons, 72,8%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 3 470 tons, 8,9%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     49 005 lbs / 22 228 Kg = 21,8 x 16,5 " / 419 mm shells or 3,7 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,25
   Metacentric height 7,5 ft / 2,3 m
   Roll period: 15,3 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 58 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,66
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 1,16

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has a flush deck
   Block coefficient: 0,551
   Length to Beam Ratio: 8,50 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 29,15 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 0,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 0,00 ft / 0,00 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32,07 ft / 9,77 m
      - Forecastle (20%):   20,41 ft / 6,22 m
      - Mid (50%):      20,41 ft / 6,22 m
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   20,41 ft / 6,22 m
      - Stern:      20,41 ft / 6,22 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,34 ft / 6,51 m
   Ship tends to be wet forward

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 83,7%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 167,0%
   Waterplane Area: 59 376 Square feet or 5 516 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 140%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 343 lbs/sq ft or 1 676 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 1,79
      - Longitudinal: 1,93
      - Overall: 1,81
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent

Warning: Turret mount must have face armour - Main battery


Borys

[Walter]

Non existent indeed! Might as well spend all that HS on a few other things then. :)

[Blooded]

Not quite 'faster than a speeding bullet'.... hmmm.

"The pendulum must swing both ways before it comes to rest in the middle"

Nice effort Laertes. Please continue. The drawings of N-verse ships make much of our efforts more worthwhile.

[P3D]

This thread IMO belongs to the Ship Design forum.

[Jefgte]

IMO,

The bridge base is too big & the stacks could move very near the bridge.
Boiler rooms 1 & 2 could be under the bridge. (In that ship, I imagine 8 boilers rooms).


Suggestion:
With 4T2 - 2 fore & 2 aft, you could have 2 high fire control positions.


Jef

[Laertes]

I'm on my girlfriends' machine right now, so I don't have the sim for it available. However, Hamilton actually has a *much* deeper keel than that (and is only 720ft long), which gave me a little more space. From memory, her size is:

710ft waterline, 10ft stern overhang, 108ft beam, 38ft draft, and a block coefficient of around 0.5. Freeboard 19ft, forecastle freeboard 27ft, increasing to 32ft at the stem.

I actually can't find much data on how large historical superstructures were in terms of floor space - I've been guessing, based on diagrams, but that's no substitute for data. If I move her towards having a taller, less long superstructure, I want to be able to fit everything in without building Kongo's pagoda. I quite liked the visual of the long, low structure, with the conning tower aft of the bridge, but looking at it, it is a waste of space (even if it keeps her centre of gravity low).

I shall, however, steal Jef and mentat's idea regarding having a second fire control top on a rear mast. The overall design might go:

X and Y turrets, aft DCT (possibly with some superstructure there), AA deck, aft stack, boat deck, fore stack, bridge, B and A turrets.

[Borys]

Ahoj!
A rough sim with your data, without diddie guns:

ship type laid down 1922

Displacement:
   37 950 t light; 39 892 t standard; 42 213 t normal; 44 069 t full load

Dimensions: Length overall / water x beam x draught
   721,00 ft / 720,00 ft x 108,00 ft x 38,00 ft (normal load)
   219,76 m / 219,46 m x 32,92 m  x 11,58 m

Armament:
      8 - 16,50" / 419 mm guns (4x2 guns), 2 246,06lbs / 1 018,80kg shells, 1922 Model
     Breech loading guns in turrets (on barbettes)
     on centreline ends, evenly spread, 2 raised mounts - superfiring
   Weight of broadside 17 969 lbs / 8 150 kg
   Shells per gun, main battery: 110

Armour:
   - Belts:      Width (max)   Length (avg)      Height (avg)
   Main:   13,0" / 330 mm   470,00 ft / 143,26 m   16,00 ft / 4,88 m
   Ends:   Unarmoured
     Main Belt covers 100% of normal length

   - Torpedo Bulkhead:
      2,00" / 51 mm   470,00 ft / 143,26 m   56,00 ft / 17,07 m

   - Gun armour:   Face (max)   Other gunhouse (avg)   Barbette/hoist (max)
   Main:   16,0" / 406 mm   11,0" / 279 mm      15,0" / 381 mm

   - Armour deck: 4,00" / 102 mm, Conning tower: 17,00" / 432 mm

Machinery:
   Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
   Geared drive, 4 shafts, 154 356 shp / 115 149 Kw = 30,00 kts
   Range 8 000nm at 14,00 kts
   Bunker at max displacement = 4 177 tons

Complement:
   1 472 - 1 914

Cost:
   £10,767 million / $43,069 million

Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
   Armament: 2 246 tons, 5,3%
   Armour: 14 760 tons, 35,0%
      - Belts: 4 222 tons, 10,0%
      - Torpedo bulkhead: 1 948 tons, 4,6%
      - Armament: 4 312 tons, 10,2%
      - Armour Deck: 3 834 tons, 9,1%
      - Conning Tower: 444 tons, 1,1%
   Machinery: 5 236 tons, 12,4%
   Hull, fittings & equipment: 15 707 tons, 37,2%
   Fuel, ammunition & stores: 4 263 tons, 10,1%
   Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0,0%

Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
   Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
     44 735 lbs / 20 291 Kg = 19,9 x 16,5 " / 419 mm shells or 7,4 torpedoes
   Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1,02
   Metacentric height 5,8 ft / 1,8 m
   Roll period: 18,8 seconds
   Steadiness   - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 47 %
         - Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0,62
   Seaboat quality  (Average = 1.00): 0,88

Hull form characteristics:
   Hull has rise forward of midbreak
   Block coefficient: 0,500
   Length to Beam Ratio: 6,67 : 1
   'Natural speed' for length: 26,83 kts
   Power going to wave formation at top speed: 55 %
   Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 50
   Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): -1,00 degrees
   Stern overhang: 1,00 ft / 0,30 m
   Freeboard (% = measuring location as a percentage of overall length):
      - Stem:      32,00 ft / 9,75 m
      - Forecastle (0%):   27,00 ft / 8,23 m
      - Mid (30%):      27,00 ft / 8,23 m (19,00 ft / 5,79 m aft of break)
      - Quarterdeck (15%):   19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Stern:      19,00 ft / 5,79 m
      - Average freeboard:   21,40 ft / 6,52 m

Ship space, strength and comments:
   Space   - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 99,1%
      - Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 146,3%
   Waterplane Area: 51 810 Square feet or 4 813 Square metres
   Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 98%
   Structure weight / hull surface area: 209 lbs/sq ft or 1 022 Kg/sq metre
   Hull strength (Relative):
      - Cross-sectional: 0,91
      - Longitudinal: 1,54
      - Overall: 0,96
   Caution: Hull subject to strain in open-sea
   Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is adequate
   Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
   Poor seaboat, wet and uncomfortable, reduced performance in heavy weather



Remember, SS does not put guns on the f'castle, so to sim that one must use "Hull has rise forward of midbreak".
And that's a quite immpressive draught, BTW.

Borys

[Carthaginian]

Wow... 38 feet... most North American ports would not like this ship.
She'd have to stand off several miles from Mobile to take supplies. Probably would have to stay outside Dauphin Island, in fact.

[Laertes]

Every time I post a ship, I learn something.

Incidentally, I can't find the Springsharp for her. I'm fairly sure I named that file in confusion: It was 3 am, and I don't have a 35kt Hamilton. I've got a 29kt 8x34cm Hamilton (which has the dimensions pictured) and a 35kt 6x42cm Penharrow (which doesn't).

[Borys]

Ahoj!
I learnt a lot from criticisms of my designs here.
:)
Borys